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Posted by ExMachina73 2 days ago

The title cards in Blade Runner are amazing(randsinrepose.com)
435 points | 210 comments
ilamont 2 days ago|
Well, besides the language and the typeface, the other element of this sequence at the beginning of Blade Runner that makes it so special is the accompanying score by Vangelis, and the sound effects that start with twinkling computer notes and gradually build in volume to explosions and the whoosh of futuristic vehicles. It effectively immerses viewers into this incredible world and story.
ColdStream 2 days ago||
It was only a few months back that I found out that Vangelis couldn't read or write music notation. He would just improv play and record on a tape, recording additional parts and mixing as needed. If he needed to have other musicians involved, then he would hire someone to listen back and write down the notation.

Considering he recorded something like 35 albums, he was doing something right.

emmelaich 2 days ago|||
Vangelis is a bit funny and odd! Have a listen of Jon Anderson's (formerly of Yes) account of meeting and collaborating with Vangelis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItV5h3Arl5M

jacquesm 2 days ago|||
Priceless video, thank you so much.
clan 2 days ago||||
"Don't worry. I'm greek".

What an absolute gem. Thank you for sharing this.

kdazzle 1 day ago|||
Man, Jon and Vangelis is a surprisingly good album
rdiddly 2 days ago||||
You might be surprised at how many famous professional musicians don't read music notation. Outside of the classical world, session work, and jazz fake-books, it's far from de rigueur.
ilamont 2 days ago|||
This is true. I read an interview with Hans Zimmer who has scored dozens of Hollywood films (including Blade Runner 2049) and when he first arrived in London in the 1980s he couldn’t read music. Not sure about now.

ETA: he did eventually learn how to read music:

“I learnt to read music after I bought the Roland MC8 Microcomposer, because it then became essential for me. … I learnt music by ear and have picked up most of my technical knowledge through the sessions and gigs.”

https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/ronnys-electro-music-caba...

ilamont 1 day ago|||
So, I looked up this piece of equipment that he references.

The Roland MC-8 MicroComposer by the Roland Corporation was introduced in early 1977 at a list price of US$4,795 (¥1,200,000 JPY) ... it was considered revolutionary at the time, introducing features such as a keypad to enter note information and 16 kilobytes of random access memory which allowed a maximum sequence length of 5200 notes, a huge step forward from the 8-16 step sequencers ... Roland switched to the then brand new Intel 8080A 8-bit microprocessor and increased the RAM from 512 bytes to 16KB, allowing storage of over 5,300 notes, which could be entered via the calculator keyboard (the preferred method) or recorded in real-time (not so easy). Backup was via cassette and could take 45 minutes to an hour for a three- or four-minute piece of music to back up and verify. The memory was volatile, so a loss of power meant complete loss of data.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MC-8_Microcomposer

Only 200 were made, but it's possible he purchased it second-hand, as he had done for the Moog that was once owned by Tangerine Dream.

Lio 1 day ago||
The really interesting thing about the MC-8 is that it’s pre-MIDI, so CV and gate.

Tangerine Dream are listed as users on the wiki page so I guess he could have got it from them with the Moog.

As with all things vintage music Alex Ball has brilliant video on it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9l79HgXvxP8&pp=ygUNQWxleCBiYWx...

polotics 2 days ago||||
Insightful Hans Zimmer, 1982:

"You should be able to get something out of a machine that is better than an average musician."

I think he was even more `absolutely right` than he even thought

Lio 1 day ago||||
> Have you had any training?

> Hans: Oh yes — I have had two weeks of piano lessons!

Germans are much funnier than they are given credit for!

FuturisticLover 1 day ago||||
This is a great interview. This is the first time I have seen a younger Hans Zimmer.
nephihaha 1 day ago|||
Hans Zimmer's protegé Lorne Balfe is dyslexic and started off as a drummer. Balfe probably can't read music well although he's done well for himself.
bombcar 2 days ago||||
It's one of those "lies programmers believe" kind of things - we like to think that there is one definitive "notation" of a piece of music - but even when there IS accurate sheet music, it only tells part of the story.

Music before recordings was much closer to jam-band style than people realize; and in the Middle Ages you could hear substantial differences in the same song just by traveling a few tens of miles.

ButlerianJihad 2 days ago|||
When I was in high school band, there was a music store where I would go purchase my saxophone reeds. And as it was the 1980s, most of the music store floor space held racks of sheet music in books and quartos and so forth.

Now, I had learned music theory and sheet music, which immediately disqualified me from a career in punk rock. But the music store sold modern pop music as well. It wasn't long before I had Tina Turner, Billy Idol, and Depeche Mode songbooks.

The Billy Idol songbook was especially interesting, as it included guitar tabulature. The text explained how Billy's guitarist, Steve Stevens, used novel techniques to achieve his sound.

Now I did not play guitar, so the tabulature was merely a visual curiosity for me, but me and my sister had some Casio keyboards from Toys-R-Us, in addition to my saxophones. So I would try and play the tunes I knew best from the songbooks.

But it was really weird, because when I played the melodies according to the sheet music, it didn't sound (musically) like the band on the radio. In fact, there was a Howard Jones song that would jar me into a Christmas spirit, because of a certain run of notes in a particular key. But sometimes the rhythms were approximated, or the notes were off.

I lost interest in purchasing these song books. I think it eventually became clear that the artists were not composing pop songs by writing sheet music, but someone with a degree, taking a break from their McDonald's job, was listening to the songs and transcribing them to conventional sheet music.

Many years later, I joined a large secular chorus of mixed voices. The sheet music we received included Rogers & Hammerstein, and John Rutter arrangements. That sheet music was exactly the remedy to restore my faith again, and my high school studies were finally vindicated for a life of non-profit volunteer service!

firmretention 1 day ago|||
This is definitely a thing. I remember buying the Metallica black album tab book and there was one section in there with a chord that was literally impossible to play as written. I can't remember exactly where it was, but it was a two note chord on adjacent strings with an impossible to cover distance between them.
projektfu 1 day ago||||
On the flip side, a lot of amazing pop artists had incredible musicality as well as the ability to write scores. Mel Torme, for example.
brador 2 days ago|||
Not knowing the alphabet of music lets the mind make its own more efficient abstractions.
navane 2 days ago||
Just like not knowing how to read and write does to your ability to speech.
coldtea 1 day ago|||
It does affect your ability to speak, and not necessarily only negatively.

You lose more evolved vocabulary and formal grammatical structures, but you gain a liveliness and a colloquial dexterity that bookish people often lack.

You can also be more inventive in your metaphors and figures of speech, instead of relying on the usual stock cliches - something often seen in oral interviews with illiterate folk.

4gotunameagain 1 day ago|||
I appreciate the tongue in cheek joke, but it is quite different.

In the case of music, you virtually always only hear the music, and the written down form is just a formalisation of said music.

In the case of language, a vast corpus of information (the majority of it) is available only in written form, with only recent proliferation of recorded audiobooks.

Additionally written text is a separate form of language with its own beauty and particularity, while in the case of music notation it is just an imperfect way of making notes of music. So many of the parts and details which make music beautiful are absent from the vast majority of partitures.

bombcar 1 day ago||
Especially when you can easily do things while playing that require tons of work to notate; like sliding key changes, etc.
Fluorescence 2 days ago||||
I have never been able to follow a score despite music lessons and playing in an orchestra (I faked it).

I find such a striking difference between notation that just swims in front of my eyes:

https://musescore.com/user/14835636/scores/6186772

And a bar graph which I can hear when muted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o

I have a similar issue with algebraic notation, the signifier and signified never connects. So much misery spending hours with a mass of punctuated greek in a cs paper to discover it describes a triangle. The decryption is not even sticky, I look away for a second and it immediately re-encrypts back to soup.

I don't understand why since programming languages having always felt natural and something I learned as a pre-teen just by being left alone with a BBC micro and a "type in a game" book.

dhosek 1 day ago||||
Even a lot of session work. Tony Levin (bass player best known for his work with Peter Gabriel and King Crimson, but who’s also played with Chuck and Gap Mangione, Paul Simon, Dire Straits, Yes, … well, more than I could reasonably put here). commented in his book Beyond the Bass Clef, that he went years doing session work without having to read music. Most rock/pop/jazz music is largely improvisatory in its structure. It’s really only when you get to larger groups (say more than about 7 or 8) that some sort of notation becomes essential to keep everyone together and even then, the rhythm section (guitar/bass/drums/keys) may not be working from anything more precise than a set of chord changes.

Improvisation goes back as far as music and even some classical music has improvised elements (cadenzas were traditionally improvised before they became commonly notated, Baroque music scored for continuo essentially provides a bassline and chord changes, albeit the chords given in an archaic form (figured bass) that is not widely known by contemporary musicians.

The most amazing improvisers, it turns out, are professional church organists (think the ones who work for the largest churches/cathedrals, not the grandmas playing a church warbler at the corner parish, but sometimes them too). When I auditioned for the Holy Name Cathedral Choir, I wanted to sing a piece by Massenet, but I had lost my original sheet music halfway through trying to transcribe a cleaner copy so I had a melody line and only a few parts of the piano accompaniment. The (assistant!) organist who accompanied me at my audition site-improvised an accompaniment for the piece that was, in my opinion, actually better than the written accompaniment I had lost.

That said, being able to read music can be a sort of superpower. So many times on church gigs, I’ve had guitar players be astonished by my ability to pull chord changes out of piano/organ parts without notated chords. Certainly, some aspects of music are hard to convey in notation. Swung rhythm is a particularly notable case where you’re playing something halfway between a triplet rhythm of ♩♪ and a dotted rhythm (insufficient Unicode to write a dotted eighth followed by a sixteenth). The early transmission of jazz music to European composers by way of sheet music led to them missing out on the rhythmic aspects but picking up some of the harmonic novelties. A common injunction to musicians is to play the music, not the notes.

leephillips 1 day ago||
Thus we have Stravinsky’s “Ebony Concerto”, not his finest work.
dhosek 15 hours ago||
It influenced others as well. As I recall Ravel was among them. There was a great deal of curiosity of elements of African-American music among European composers in the early 20th century.
larrywright 2 days ago|||
Dave Grohl is another one that comes to mind.
dwd 2 days ago||
Also Kurt Cobain, as noted by Rick Beato:

"It doesn't matter if people know what they are doing, if they can just do it intuitively"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ZnWc-sFd0

hnlmorg 2 days ago|||
John Lydon, aka Johnny Rotten, of Sex Pistols (amongst others) often said his Punk movement was as much a protest against the Prog Rock musical elite as it was a movement against other norms. He would say that you didn’t even need to learn to play an instrument to be able to make music with it.
isleyaardvark 1 day ago|||
I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned Paul McCartney yet.
jacquesm 2 days ago||||
You will love this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hA0z4GQjtA

Lio 1 day ago||||
Apparently the actual Yamaha CS-80 used by Vangelis on Blade Runner along with his patches is at Nemo Studios in London.

That's like a priceless holy relic as far as I'm concerned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_Studios

WorldMaker 2 days ago||||
I still love the parody of contemporaries Vangelis, Wendy Carlos, and Moroder in the Adult Swim "Infomercial" called "Live from the Necropolis: Lords of Synth": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXgNo5Smino
m463 1 day ago|||
I wonder if nowadays we get more people reading notation (are there apps to help you learn?) or less (more people composing in garageband type apps)
WalterBright 2 days ago|||
I rarely read about the contribution a good music score has to a movie's popularity. A great score makes the movie. For example,

The Blue Max, Ben Hur, the first Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Dr Zhivago, Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, and, of course, Blade Runner!

beloch 2 days ago|||
The original teaser for Star Wars was made before they had John Williams' score:

https://youtu.be/XHk5kCIiGoM?si=VxAJcCATzwn6gZPw

Watching it may help you appreciate just how important the Williams' score was to Star Wars' success. It's one of the all-time greats!

I'd also add that some movies are worth watching purely because of their score. e.g. "Conan the Barbarian" is a pretty shlocky flick. However, the director and composer took a collaborative approach to the score that was closer to opera than film. Unlike most movies, work on the score began before filming and there was continual collaboration during filming. The result remains one of the best scores in the history of film, and a film that makes the music its backbone.

throw0101d 1 day ago|||
> si=VxAJcCATzwn6gZPw

PSA: the si, as well as the pp, parameter is a form of tracking. If possible, consider trimming them after a copy-paste.

WalterBright 1 day ago|||
I went with my dorm to see SW on the second day of release. I had no idea what to expect.

Then, with the opening stab of music, I knew it was going to be great.

ArekDymalski 1 day ago||||
I guess the good examples where music could be an important driver to the movies popularity (or revival of popularity) might be: "Requiem for a dream" and "Das Boot". Also for me personally - "The Mission" as incredible score by Ennio Morricone has brought me tia film I'd rather ignore. Other (also personal) example is " The Spawn" with it's mind-blowing OST.
srean 22 hours ago||||
Great for listening to while programming. Words/lyrics throw me off but movie scores ... they feel perfect for programming.
10729287 1 day ago||||
I always remember a quote I read when I was way younger about Halloween or The Exorcist : "the film's score is a character in its own right".
ndsipa_pomu 2 days ago||||
I'll add Donnie Darko and The Blues Brothers (that may be cheating, though).
account42 2 days ago|||
Donnie Darko is interesting because the director's cut has significant changes to the music compared to the theatrical release, including the one played in the opening sequence.
ndsipa_pomu 1 day ago|||
I didn't know that and Donnie Darko is one of my favourite films.

From Wikipedia: "The Killing Moon" by Echo & the Bunnymen was replaced with "Never Tear Us Apart" by INXS, which Kelly had not had the rights to use in the film's theatrical release.

Also: Kelly had originally wanted to use the songs "Never Tear Us Apart" by INXS and "West End Girls" by the Pet Shop Boys during the opening scene of Donnie cycling home and Sparkle Motion's dance at the talent show respectively, but financial constraints meant that he instead had to use "The Killing Moon" by Echo & the Bunnymen and "Notorious" by Duran Duran. For the director's cut, Kelly was able to gain the rights to use "Never Tear Us Apart" for the opening scene, and moved "The Killing Moon" to later in the film; "Notorious" was not moved from the talent show scene.

the_af 1 day ago||
Donnie Darko is (to me) one of those movies ruined by the director's cut. Not only due to the music changes, but also because the "message" of the movie is made more explicit and on the nose. And reading Kelly's interviews and opinions is even worse. One of those movies where keeping the original, and the mystery, is absolutely mandatory.
ilamont 1 day ago||
I haven't seen Darko's director's cut, but am reluctant to do so just because they swapped out Echo and the Bunnymen for the opening scene, which works so well.

For Blade Runner director's cut, I had mixed feelings. The unicorn scenes and some other added footage helped. I thought getting rid of Deckard's inner thoughts VO was a mistake.

In the scene at the noodle stall, it clarified a lot of things such as the language people were speaking. The VO after the dancer's shooting was also revealing in a way that interpreting the expression on his face was not.

account42 1 day ago||
I do actually prefer Never Tear Us Apart in the opening scene more so the director's cut is the usual way I rewatch it. Have to agree with gp that some of the other changes are unfortunate but not big enough to ruin the movie for me.
mikeaskew4 1 day ago|||
The Blues Brothers IS the soundtrack. Nobody remembers Twiggy was in it.
ndsipa_pomu 1 day ago||
I remember her due to her accent (I'm english too). Next you'll be telling me that nobody remembers Frank Oz in it. Or Mr. T.
m463 1 day ago||||
How could you skip The Good, The Bad and The Ugly? :)
WalterBright 1 day ago|||
P.S. I deliberately did not include musicals or movies like 2001 that did not compose an original score.
justincormack 1 day ago||
2001 did have an original score, but it was thrown out and replaced with classical music
wyclif 1 day ago|||
I was never a big 1980's synth music guy, but for some reason I always enjoyed the soundtracks Vangelis made. Not only for this movie, but also "Chariots of Fire", "Antarctica", &c.
stronglikedan 1 day ago|||
I've always wondered what was causing the explosions. I've seen the movie dozens of times, and if they explained it, I missed it.
ilamont 1 day ago||
It's the gas flare-offs from oil wells. Los Angeles still has small oil wells in operation.
abrookewood 2 days ago|||
That soundtrack is absolutely perfect.
cineticdaffodil 2 days ago|||
[dead]
psyclobe 2 days ago||
As good as that track is its literally his only good stuff. Try as I might, and as eager as I was to like him his library of music just falls flat.
manytimesaway 2 days ago|||
As we say in another language, "you should probably get your ears cleaned".

Besides the Blade Runner & Chariots of Fire soundtracks (two masterpieces of albums, which is two more than 90% of the world), his repertoire is filled with instant electronic classics, such as Earth, Albedo 0.39, Spiral, and l'Apocalypse des Animaux.

I'm not even mentioning Aphrodite's Child.

JetSetIlly 2 days ago|||
The albums he did with Jon Anderson are worth a listen too I think.
manytimesaway 1 day ago||
His entire discography is worth a listen, honestly. Gems absolutely everywhere, and deep knowledge of his (traveling!) studio.
TiredOfLife 2 days ago|||
For me first experience of Aphrodite's Child was even better for I knew of Demis Roussos only by his later work
acomjean 2 days ago||||
Chariots of fire soundtrack was good too.
jacquesm 2 days ago|||
Try Soil Festivities
schoen 2 days ago||
With the em dashes and the conclusion "This was not called execution. It was called retirement." I expect a lot of people would believe today that these title cards were written by an LLM.
rafram 2 days ago||
You're not wrong, but part of the core problem with LLMs is that they write every blog post and README like they're writing the opening titles for Blade Runner.
anigbrowl 2 days ago|||
Also the problem with LinkedIn, local news etc. Contemporary American culture is addicted to dramatic writing and tries to leverage its tropes to create emotional engagement on everything.
mindcrime 2 days ago|||
Exactly. That's not just a load-bearing truth — it's a testament to the power of the contemporary zeitgeist!
vntok 1 day ago||
You're absolutely right.
mpfh 2 days ago|||
You hit the nail on the smoking gun.
lstodd 2 days ago||
I applaud your excellent (sorry, cat stole the rest).
DrewADesign 1 day ago|||
> they write every blog post and README like they're writing the opening titles for Blade Runner.

As told through a Reddit post.

roughly 2 days ago|||
What’s sort of funny about that is there’s a normal thing whenever anyone who hasn’t seen it watches Blade Runner for the first time - often they come out feeling it’s kind of derivative, when the truth is that it feels that way because everything after Blade Runner copied Blade Runner.

Add the initial title cards to that list too now, I guess.

mindcrime 2 days ago|||
It's been reported that William Gibson saw Blade Runner before releasing Neuromancer and was worried that people would think he stole ideas from Blade Runner, as the aesthetic of Blade Runner was so close to the way he imagined the Neuromancer world. Now in turn people are worried that the Apple TV adaptation of Neuromancer will feel derivative because so many subsequent works are its hereditary kin.

What can ya do?

AlanYx 1 day ago|||
>Now in turn people are worried that the Apple TV adaptation of Neuromancer will feel derivative because so many subsequent works are its hereditary kin.

Neuromancer is particularly vulnerable to this because so much of the original Matrix film is very strongly inspired by Neuromancer, down to reused place names (Zion), the clothing Trinity wears (even the iconic glasses are an alternative to Molly's eye implants), the lobby scene (compare to the Panther Moderns lobby raid), the concept of payphones as a way to cross the boundary between the real and the virtual, etc. I almost have a "memory" of the phone scene in the Istanbul airport in Neuromancer being mirrored in the Matrix movies. It's not actually there, at least not directly, but there's so much overlap between these two that it's an easy false memory.

WorldMaker 2 days ago||||
My favorite example already from the trailers was "the lady wearing mirror shades was already done in the movie Johnny Mnemonic in the 90s" and getting to explain that it is literally the same character. (Johnny Mnemonic was based on a short story that happens around the same time as Neuromancer and the character Molly crosses between the two. I, for one, am hoping the new Apple TV adaptation gives us an excuse to see at least one ex-military dolphin.)
chipotle_coyote 1 day ago|||
I've seen a few people complain that the first trailer for the Neuromancer TV show looks "too bright" or "too clean." I think the real difference is that they're consciously trying to avoid that Blade Runner aesthetic, which includes avoiding the "never get brighter than dusk" trope.
roughly 1 day ago|||
As a note on this, I just reread Neuromancer, and the bulk majority of it takes place in places that are not “high tech/low life” locales. People remember Chiba City, but that’s chapter one, there’s a whole rest of the book after that.
the_af 1 day ago|||
Very likely.

However, I see two problems with this: one, I think people are going to make comparisons to Matrix rather than Blade Runner, and judging from the trailer it looks a lot like a modern Matrix (understandably!). Second, Neuromancer starts with "the sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel" so the grey/"not sunny" look is kinda baked in and hard to avoid ;)

schoen 1 day ago||
I'm sure many people have remarked on this before, but the expectation of TV being grey when tuned to a dead channel is probably somewhat unfamiliar to younger readers, who may expect the newer behavior of the TV instead showing a synthesized blue screen, or a textual error message!

I wonder how many people may have read that more recently and thought that the sky was being described as deep, pure blue, rather than a difficult and chaotic grey.

majormajor 2 days ago||||
Casablanca is a famous example of this too.

And LOTR, though in that case coming to it after reading Terry Pratchett was difficult for me (Pratchett didn't just copy its, or other, fantasy tropes, but send them up in an exceedingly clever way).

roughly 2 days ago|||
Yeah, there’s a bunch of these. I really like finding these sorts of “ur-“ moments, the first time a way of doing things really crystallizes into something other practitioners can see. The Matrix is another one - that movie is the transition point from 90s cinema to the 2000s, and it’s a little clunky from a 2000s viewpoint, but if you look at everything that came before it, it’s so clearly a turning point.
lstodd 2 days ago|||
I'd say if there even was a bump between 90s and 2000s it was not the matrix, it was Guy Ritchie. And then Gaspar Noe sealed that. Tarantino was having a smoke nearby.
excalibur 2 days ago|||
Stop trying to steal The Matrix. It was released in 1999, that's OUR movie. You get the sequels.
worldthruword 1 day ago||
I have escaped the Matrix [bits and bytes world]; But entered the Gastrics (juice) [ie flesh and bones world]
krapp 2 days ago||||
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunn...

I think there was a case of a movie reviewer for some newspaper panning LOTR because of how "generic" and "derivative" it was. I don't know if that's true or an urban legend, though, but I can see it happening.

I also think its going to be a problem for the upcoming Neuromancer series. Unless they change a lot of things, the plot as written is practically cliche at this point, and a lot of it doesn't even make sense outside of the specific technological and political context of the time.

themadturk 2 days ago|||
Having read LOTR many, many times before I ever started trying to read Pratchett, I can't read Pratchett. That's not a slam at Sir Terry; I'd just internalized Tolkien so much that it was beyond my ability to properly appreciate him.
nython 2 days ago|||
If you haven't tried it, Small Gods is frequently recommended as a standalone, and it's very far in subject matter from the early tolkien-parody rincewind/guards books.
librasteve 2 days ago||||
Tolkien, Pratchett … like Bach and Toploader?
tremon 1 day ago||
I'd say like Bach and Rossini. Rossini was perfectly aware of the form of traditional opera, but deliberately chose to engage with it in a much less reverent style.
the_af 1 day ago|||
Many Pratchett books aren't riffs on Tolkien at all. Someone recommended Small Gods (excellent choice, and not a whiff of Elves or Dwarves there) but many other Pratchett books are genuinely good and not cheap shots at Tolkien.

I say give it another try.

tclancy 1 day ago||||
I heard the story as attributed to Asimov: he was walking out of Hamlet when a fellow patron said, "I don't see what the big deal is. It was all just cliches strung together."
velcrovan 1 day ago||
It’s a bit like how the end point of the most wildly successful music is that you hear it on a loop in the grocery store
inigyou 1 day ago||
I think that's actually just that me espresso.
chrisweekly 2 days ago|||
Same thing happened to Tolkien and fantasy literature.
WalterBright 2 days ago||
I read LOTR in the early 70s. There was nothing else like it then.
chrisweekly 1 day ago||
[dead]
ColdStream 2 days ago|||
Will just been seen as one of those things that just happen be to accurate to the future by mere chance.

The other was in Terminator 2 with how agreeable LLM's will be regarding new information.

Terminator/T-800 tests his foster mother's identity with a phone call.

Terminator impersonating John - "Hey Janelle, what's wrong with Wolfie?" (using a fake name instead of the dog's real name, Max).

T-1000 "Wolfie's fine," the Terminator hangs up and tells John "Your foster parents are dead."

the_af 2 days ago||
If T-1000 was an LLM:

"What's wrong with Wolfie?"

"Wolfie's fine."

"Actually his name's Max."

"You're absolutely right. It's not Wolfie -- it's Max."

"Actually we don't have a dog."

"I apologize. I shouldn't have assumed you have a dog. I will be more careful in the future. Do you want me to list common pets in American households?"

Terminator hangs up and tells John "You need a better model."

ProllyInfamous 2 days ago|||
Can we get off with "the em dashes" – I've been using them for years (checks post history:), decades.
jameshart 2 days ago|||
Thematically appropriate for it to be difficult to tell something human-created from something generated by a computer.

Almost a bit too on the nose.

cgorlla 2 days ago||
A typographic Voight-Kampff test is pretty awesome.
jameshart 1 day ago|||
Describe in single words, without making a bulleted list starting with emoji, only the good things that come into your mind about your mother.
subscribed 1 day ago|||
Oh noes, all the poor people who taught themselves how to speak English from books and movies, not the street or school.

Third category, behind a crafty LLMs.

warmjets222 2 days ago|||
Pretty much anything professionally typeset will use the appropriate dashes.
hcs 2 days ago|||
I would expect the LLM-ese to not repeat "called" like that.
EarlKing 2 days ago|||
Clearly the writers should be subject to a Voight-Kampff test just to be sure.
brador 2 days ago|||
You tell an AI it’s an AI. It looks in its training set for examples and finds Blade Runner (and scifi books).

Maybe that’s the origin of its use of em dashes.

It “feels” that’s what an AI should use, it is told it is an AI, therefore it should use them, thus does.

nphardon 2 days ago||
There's a lot of em dashes in the article as well, along with some phrasing that is very LLM. I think this was written with a mix of LLM and human.
lilboo 2 days ago||
What is up with the LLM police in every comment section lately… even IF so.. isn’t that the authors whole point? It can be LLM assisted, but the beauty is in the human aspects of it. This piece is, at least in part written by a human… this is the future… so?
nphardon 16 hours ago|||
I'm not policing, I didn't flag it; but for the same reasons you mentioned it's an interesting transition to observe.

Also, when writers use llms to do their writing, it gets injected with these generic phrases that jump out to heavy llm users because theyre repeated so often. It's just kind of a weird phenomenon.

cgorlla 2 days ago||||
Every post is actually scanned for LLM content as well.
kolanos 1 day ago|||
It's an LLM flooding the zone.
kodablah 2 days ago||
Also touched on at https://typesetinthefuture.com/2016/06/19/bladerunner/ (and the book)
riffraff 2 days ago||
I Wish the author would write more articles, I enjoyed these when they came out immensely.
alexpotato 2 days ago||
Came here to say the same thing.

I think the Alien one is even better: https://typesetinthefuture.com/2014/12/01/alien/

ghtbircshotbe 1 day ago||
> Chances are, you never think about typography.

Probably not true for most of the people reading a blog post about typography

burnoutdv 2 days ago||
This is interesting for me as the author mentions in the opening line that he basically is a slave to the machine theirself and the only freedom they got is in choosing the font space of their user interface.

And then they go on about the intricate details of some artistic choice 40 years ago. How the human touch and deliberate decisions were made..it all eclipsing in it being about a movie where the machine rebelled.

jimmaswell 2 days ago||
> I’m staring at a fixed-width typeface all day. Apple provides a functional and gorgeous fixed-width variant of their San Francisco typeface called SF Mono, which I’ve been using for months, but, well, I have a short attention span — typographically speaking.

Tangential but I've been enjoying GNU Unifont for this purpose. I like the look of it and it does a good job supporting a huge range of characters. Terminals warn me that it's not technically monospace, but for all intents and purposes in a terminal windows it is. I have it as the default bundled font with a project that renders custom glyphs on the fly for display on real VT320 hardware as DRCS.

mannyv 2 days ago||
Small Caps were a thing when I was a typography fan. They aren't just smaller versions of caps, they were specifically designed for in-text use as opposed to display use.

Fyi.

DrewADesign 2 days ago||
Yeah, I was gonna say that. The proportions are pretty different. Though I rarely use them inline… I’ve used them in a few logos when the uniformity of the letterforms just clicked in-context.
globular-toast 2 days ago|||
Normal caps are for in-text use too. A really good typeface will have different versions for all kinds of different display conditions. Sometimes several levels of display for headings and above, like posters and signs. There will also be different weights which are important, for example if you are setting light on dark as opposed to dark on light (e.g. on UK road signs a medium font is used for light on dark and heavy for dark on light). It's all about giving the desired optical effect.

In computer science literature it's common to typeset the names of problems in caps (e.g. 3-SAT), but I find doing it with normal caps so ugly. It's much more pleasing to use small caps, and some works do (including my own PhD thesis). What I find even nicer is that you can still capitalise proper nouns and the beginning of sentences when using small caps.

bhasi 2 days ago||
Love small caps. Rarely used and encountered, I really enjoy seeing them in the wild.
wsintra2022 1 day ago||
The skyline was inspired by north east England, Middlesbrough Teesside. ICI was one of the largest chemical sites in the world. Ridley Scott had studied at Teesside Polytechnic and took inspiration from the Imperial Chemical Industries that over looked Middlesbrough. One side of the skyline in the area you see towers and smoke billows and roaring flames, the other picturesque north Yorkshire moors and Odins Mount. Quite a contrast.
stronglikedan 1 day ago||
> Like when you buy a car, and all you see is your new car on the road.

Fun fact: the reason all car commercials sound the same, and distinctly different from other types, is that people tend to pay attention to them, but only when they're in the market for a car.

--source: ex worked as copywriter for ad agency

Terr_ 2 days ago|
> Here are the six that have made my cut [...] The question is: how do they make you feel?

Feel, schmeel, I'd have vetoed Berkeley Mono right away for the very practical offense of making 0 resemble O. Even in my pre-coding youth, I already had an inordinate fondness for the disambiguations of OCR-A [0]...

> HARRISON FORD

Hold up... Why is that one twisted!? Is it an optical illusion? Am I going nuts?

Nope. I opened it up in GIMP and I'm not (that type of) crazy: The H is ~4 pixels higher than the D, as if the whole thing was rotated by 1° clockwise. However the same rotation isn't present on the which appear cards immediately before and after.

I assume this is subtle quirk introduced the video-editing process, but if it happened today (instead of back in 1982) I could entertain the idea that it's One Weird Trick intended to attract viewer attention via subtle wrongness.

> we obsess over the details.

"I'm doing my part!" <Starship-Troopers salute>

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCR-A

teraflop 2 days ago||
I mean back in the day, those kinds of titles involved film editing, not video editing. As in, physically filming title cards with a camera (and then maybe optically compositing them on top of other elements). It's easy to see how things could get slightly misaligned.

Looks like the misalignment is less than 1 degree. It's the kind of thing that stands out very noticeably in an image on a web page, when there are lots of perfectly horizontal edges to compare it against (e.g. the edge of the viewport). But I think it would be much harder to notice if projected onto a movie screen in a dark theater.

toast0 2 days ago|||
In older films and lower budget films into the 90s, you could expect the titles to wobble up and down and left and right from frame to frame, too.
Terr_ 2 days ago|||
> (and then maybe optically compositing them on top of other elements)

Right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdHTlUGN1zw&t=3m20s

thewisenerd 1 day ago|||
> I'd have vetoed Berkeley Mono right away

this is bait. berkeley mono out of the box sure doesn't do O0 separation but their "compiler"[0] lets you get a dashed one _very_ easily.

[0] https://usgraphics.com/products/berkeley-mono#:~:text=Custom...

staticshock 2 days ago||
Whoa, great catch! I can't unsee it.
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