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Posted by DarkContinent 16 hours ago

Crime Pays but Botany Doesn't(www.crimepaysbutbotanydoesnt.com)
602 points | 182 commentspage 2
wowczarek 5 hours ago|
As a child of an entomologist turned botanist and another naturalist, who grew up in our home library full of assorted atlases, monographies and other odd books, I often learned the Latin names together with the respective common names, and it's amazing how it sticks. Being able to look at a random plant and say I don't know what it is exactly, but it's definitely labiaceae, is something I will always appreciate. Only recently my father sent me a video of a dormouse making themselves at home at a friend's cottage and my brain said "Glis glis". How I remembered it, I have no clue. I'm an IT person.
Aboutplants 5 hours ago||
My young daughter can identify a whole host of native species by their scientific names and it absolutely floors adults who catch her doing it. Our house is a plant nerd house so she just picked it all up on her own and enjoys it as a small component of her life.
ButlerianJihad 5 hours ago||
One of my father's coworkers (environmental health & safety) was an entomologist. I wonder how much of her work was in forensics.

Our family is Catholic, and Mom hates Latin, so as a reactionary I absolutely love it. As a child about 10 years old, I began to collect books called "Field Guide" such as Field Guide to Spiders and Field Guide to Butterflies and so forth. These were wonderful, glossy illustrated handbooks, and while the only field trips I made were into our suburban backyard, we saw a quality mix of flora and fauna because of Dad's gardening and our proximity to a canyon.

And the index would have all scientific names listed, and so I set myself to the task of memorizing as many as possible. I hardly recall any today, except apis mellifera and mosca domestica but I can tell you, it was really influential for my social life at recess to be blurting out the Latin names of creepy-crawlies. Harry Potter was still at least 15 years in the future, then, and none of the girls showed interest in field trips.

rib3ye 14 hours ago||
Joey is also an amazing fine and graffiti artist (ALONE)

https://www.publiclandstore.com/blogs/gallery/joey-alone-exh...

Schlagbohrer 13 hours ago||
His interview with the old railworker and grease-pen graffiti artist Colossus of Roads was fascinating. Unfortunately I cant find it on youtube anymore with a quick search, otherwise I'd put the link here.
voicedYoda 13 hours ago|||
Railroad guy was Russell Butler. He was relatively prolific and had an insta account.

https://www.instagram.com/buzblurr/

Brybry 13 hours ago|||
Is this it? https://youtu.be/-Eo4WuhpiJg?t=1085
Schlagbohrer 6 hours ago||
Yes
ChaitanyaSai 8 hours ago||
Wow this is fantastic stuff. Thank you
ggm 13 hours ago||
Great article with elements of "how to draw an owl" about it.

  To be really good at botany is simple. Just learn how to be really good at {list of requirements which are themselves recursively complex and challenging, despite being written as one word like "learn"}
trentor 13 hours ago|
I am lost they have training videos, they have a reading list, they have tutorials... everything you need to get started. How else would you acquire skills? There is no upload function yet.
ggm 11 hours ago|||
I think there is a common belief if you make a lot of information available, acquiring skills is "easy". It's certainly easier than without, but the thing is, drawing the owl just takes a fucking long time to learn. There are no shortage of online tutes to learn how to draw, the genre is ancient.

Plants mimic each other for advantage facing herbivores. Isn't that fantastic!.

Learning Latin is the least burden here, the problem is that a profusion of morphological features defines set membership and professionals assign a significant role for DNA analysis. We have a hodgepodge, taxonomy has warfare inside.

Botany is great. Being good at it takes time. Being good at anything takes time.

trentor 9 hours ago||
There is just not shortcut to acquire a skill worth having. I don't understand your argument.
klez 12 hours ago|||
From mobile it's a bit unclear that there's a whole website beside this article. I, for one, noticed the hamburger menu only after I read your comment. I suppose GP had the same problem.
CalRobert 11 hours ago||
If you watch only one video make it the Berkeley Bowl one

https://youtu.be/PUFQouwqbe8

arjie 5 hours ago||
Haha, the Latin (or pseudo-Latin, I suppose) I like for the fact that it’s sufficiently alien to not introduce terminology confusion like “strawberries aren’t berries and pineapple is a berry” or whatever that is a colloquial language confusion.

Science does have a lot of weird terminology that can be improved, though. One example is the thing I’ve always known since a child as the Fallopian Tube. At some point in my twenties, I learned Eileter - egg carrier - and the subsequent term oviduct. I’m a huge fan of Germanic compound words since destructuring them gives you information on the object - the ovum tube. There is a commonality in terminology between different parts of the body and this concordance aids memory and recall.

A Fallopian Tube on the other hand implies some kind of membership of the group of Fallopes and has no function description.

yboris 5 hours ago||
Plant(ing) related: I planted 100 trees in my tiny back yard, creating a pocket forest / Miyawaki forest - a technique encouraging fast growth through dense planting (3-5 trees / shrubs per square meter). Routed my gutters into a swale along the tree line - looking forward to watching a forest appear over the next decade.

https://www.creatingtomorrowsforests.co.uk/blog/the-miyawaki...

ASinclair 2 hours ago||
I saw him talk at SF Nerd Nite years ago. Very entertaining and informative. The crazy thing is he's self taught. Smart man.
razster 14 hours ago||
Slowly killing my lawn. Red bud trees will soon forest my property.
contingencies 13 hours ago|
Congratulations! Add a water feature ... it will attract birds. And next to that some smaller shrubs. Then once the trees grow you can put climbers and ferns in them. And throw down some rocks for good measure. It encourages variant microclimates which encourages biodiversity.
DonHopkins 13 hours ago||
Also throw down some Psylocybe Allenii spores (family Hymenogastraceae) for even better measure!

It thrives in otherwise hideous and tacky Home Depot woodchip landscaping beds in front of luxury yuppie condos, banks, and other nondescript, bleak looking buildings.

They'll lift the veil on your own bullshit, and make you deal with whatever's harming you, like four weeks of therapy in four hours.

The Ethnomycology of Ugly Landscaping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHRgY8fZNv4

contingencies 13 hours ago||
ROFL. Banned in Australia. "Requires age verification." Next up: Ethnomycology of nanny state....
BigTTYGothGF 7 hours ago||
It's a North American fungus and you want to sow it in Australia? You really do need to listen to Joey Santore....
contingencies 1 hour ago||
Many fungi have pan-tropical or global distribution. See p158+ in PDF https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annur...
franciscop 14 hours ago||
> "at the time, he was probably mostly thinking of “white European cultures”, and while we can acknowledge how backwards and fucking goofy this is now, we can still admit that Linnaeus’ ideology was simply flawed like his time and NOT throw out the baby with the proverbial bath water"

In the 18th century someone living in Europe making science books would definitely be using Latin, maybe French if you were a modernist, as that was the language of science publication and communication. I don't see how this is either backwards or goofy?

It's similar to use English on an internet blog post nowadays (as the author does), since there's many more Chinese or Spanish native speakers than English, but English IS the language of international communication.

kriro 14 hours ago||
Agreed. The author in question (Linnaeus) was from Sweden and professor at a Swedish university (Uppsala). Latin was used across the board in "traditional" sciences in northern Europe at that time and in fact the distinction of disciplines was not as clear as it is today. Linnaeus was a professor of medicine formally but focused on botany. He traveled a lot and had many international "contacts", especially in the Netherlands. His correspondence was usually a mix of Swedish and Latin (which I find interesting because I assume Swedish was not widely studied at the time) but his professional publications were in Latin.

But it was an interesting time as slowly native languages became more common. The chair for economic sciences at Uppsala was specifically to be taught in Swedish (1741).

Southern and central Europe were ahead of the curve a bit and it was more common to see French, English and German for example (French and English scientific journals date back to the 1660s).

For more information, I can recommend "Languages of science in the eighteenth century" by Britt-Louise Gunnarsson which specifically focuses on Linnaeus. It's Open Access: https://www.degruyterbrill.com/document/doi/10.1515/97831102...

rhodin 5 hours ago|||
I'd also recommend "Scientific Babel How Science Was Done Before and After Global English" by Michael D. Gordin [0]. It goes into detail about which languages scientists have used over time.

[0] https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo145049...

jhbadger 2 hours ago|||
Even speakers of more common languages like English used Latin for science. Newton wrote the Principia in Latin and William Harvey wrote De Motu Cordis (the book that showed that the heart was a pump that circulated blood) in Latin, for example.
asdfman123 13 hours ago|||
Of all the things you could criticize as backwards in 18th century biology, the choice of using Latin is probably the silliest. It was the language of learning. It's a practical choice that you and I would make if we were transported to that time.
neuroticnews25 13 hours ago|||
The way I parsed the sentence, the backwards and goofy part is just the """he was probably mostly thinking of “white European cultures”""", not the choice of Latin. Just a concilatory disclaimer to avoid being cancelled for talking good things about someone born before the abolition of slavery.
renlo 1 hour ago||
It was neither backwards nor goofy for a man in 18th century Europe to create a system only his 18th century European peers could use (the only peers whom he could even come into contact with in 18th century Europe).

What actually would be goofy and backwards would be for this man to consider all of the world's cultures with whom he had never come in contact with, and try to create a system that worked for them. That would be very goofy and backwards, it would make him a crackpot.

The mere mention of this conciliatory statement for those "[pesky] leftists" (of which the author is one), the author is asserting that "Linnaeus was backwards and goofy but yet he made a good system!". Why does this even need to be said?

Do we call Confucius backwards and goofy for only writing his virtues in Chinese and only considering his Chinese peers? Why didn't he, or the Chinese (they had an empire and the means to do this), send envoys to the west so they could divine and predict what cultures would exist in a thousand years, allowing him to write his virtues in all of the languages and to consider all of the different mores of the world when writing his virtues? It's too Chinese! Or what about the Mayans, why didn't they in their backwards and goofy manner realize that a thousand years later their script would be indecipherable (for a while) to the European-language-speaking researchers of the future? If they had written in Latin we would be able to understand what they were trying to say! Very goofy and backwards of them. \s

The author's statement is what is backwards and goofy, and it's a cultural shibboleth that worked -- I stopped reading the moment I saw that, because to me it is a goofy and backwards thing to say.

kikokikokiko 46 minutes ago||
Same here, I stopped reading right when he said this idiotic "guy from 300 years ago - when science as we know it basically only existed within the realm of white european culture" didnt thought about the rest of the world BS
gherkinnn 13 hours ago|||
Luckily the author continues with

> I say this because a few unthinking “performative leftist” nitwits as of late have decided to attack the science of taxonomy itself).

franciscop 11 hours ago|||
Sorry, please correct me if I'm wrong but with this follow up he's not contradicting the quote I put, but saying that despite of tha, the science is valid? Which means the bits I quoted are still stated as a matter of fact WITHOUT attacking the science of taxonomy itself. So he's still saying that using Latin in science was "backwards and goofy".
Lutger 11 hours ago|||
Why? What is he referencing? I can't find anything as controversial as this with an online search.
Levitz 8 hours ago||
By now, such things are so prevalent that I don't think it would even make the news anywhere.
bragh 13 hours ago|||
It's an interesting topic, though. If Latin is backwards because of assocation with European cultures, what are biologists nowadays proposing to replace it with? Some kind of universal coding system like ISBN or DOI?
melagonster 13 hours ago|||
They just use any name can be spelled by Latin characters.
asdfman123 13 hours ago|||
Oh, and use your oppressive, colonial numbering system? /s
DonHopkins 13 hours ago|||
More scientific lectures should be delivered with a blue collar Chicago dialect and accent.
jhbadger 12 hours ago||
Not Chicago, but I always liked listening to Feynman lecture in his working-class NYC accent.
DonHopkins 13 hours ago|||
Simlish was intentionally designed to be linguistically neutral, so we didn't have to laboriously translate all the game audio into dozens of languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simlish

For the same reason, botanical nomenclature should obviously be standardized in Simlish. Sul sul, Laganaphyllis simnovorii!

Laganaphyllis simnovorii is the scientific name of the Cowplant, literally suggestive of a plant that devours Sims. It first appeared under that name in The Sims 2: University as a Natural Science career reward. The Sims 3 Store also uses the full name officially.

https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Laganaphyllis_simnovorii

>This bizarre bovine vegetation is large enough to swallow your next-door neighbor whole. In fact, it WILL eat your neighbors. Your friends will be hard-pressed to resist the tantalizing vine-cake of the carnivorous Laganaphyllis Simnovorii. After it has consumed some prey, milk it for sweet, rejuvenating nectar of life. A swig of this liquid refreshment will add precious days to a Sim's life and wash away any regret they may have over their visitor's fate.

A proposed technical lexicon:

Plant: floragerb. Flora: floragerbia. Vegetation: verdigerbium. Fruit: pomofroob. Vegetable: olerinoob. Root: radixgerb. Stem: caulob. Leaf: folinurb. Flower: anthofleeb. Seed: seminib. Pollen: pollinoob. Spore: sporib. Cell: cellubo. Cell wall: muracellum. Chlorophyll: chlorofleebin. Photosynthesis: photofroobulation. Cellular respiration: respiragerbation. Germination: germinoobulation. Pollination: pollifleebation. Fertilization: gametogerbination. Transpiration: evapofleebulation. Xylem: xyloob. Phloem: phleebum. Stoma: stomabo. Phylogeny: ancestragerbics. Morphology: formagerbology. Binomial nomenclature: duonominoobulation.

gostsamo 14 hours ago||
Because latin was common only for part of one continent where he happened to be and not to the rest of the world while english happens to be spoken all over the globe due to a big goofy empire that went places.

However, let's keep out the culture wars from a post mainly about plants.

SirHumphrey 13 hours ago|||
If in 17 hundreds you wanted to choose a language that could be deciphered, say, also in China, Latin was a much better choice than any native language in various vicinity.
gostsamo 12 hours ago||
In XVIII there was no language that could be universal was my point and latin was known mainly through its derivatives.
usrnm 14 hours ago||||
> english happens to be spoken all over the globe due to a big goofy empire that went places

Why do you think Latin was popular?

gostsamo 12 hours ago||
Well, it wasn't universally popular is my point.
mantas 14 hours ago|||
Latin was the language for education and science waaaay beyond ex Roman Empire. Pretty much whole christian europe used Latin in medieval age and beyond.
gostsamo 12 hours ago||
Christian Europe waited until the XIII-XIV to get most of its latin inheritance in latin. Before that it was either greek or arabic.
gooob 2 hours ago|
glad to see this posted here on my day off! the universe seems to have a way of reminding of certain things and pointing me in the right direction!
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