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Posted by tchalla 1 day ago

Four simple rules behind Japan's most liveable cities(www.bbc.com)
128 points | 168 commentspage 2
f13f1f1f1 1 day ago|
Rule 1: be filled with Japanese people

Cities and any polity or group of people cannot be created by some abstract rules or enforced. You need it to be composed of individuals who are disposed to act harmoniously with each other and have a culture (which is basically a bunch of jigging to aid harmonious interactions, you cannot create top down the manners you don't want people to violate). Everyone acting in their own self-interest ends up creating a harmonious organization because all of their self-interest corresponds such that their self interest is reflected in the good of the whole.

Just as a feedback system, if there is something wrong in a city or organization if the person who encounters it sees it as contrary to their own self interest and is capable of dealing with it themselves they will.

If this internal principle does not exist you rely on top down surveillance and enforcement which is basically delusional if it works will only be through violent enforcement against the people. Again in terms of a feedback system, if the polity is constructed out of a bunch of individuals who have a self-interest that corresponds with the good of the whole, there is no need to propagate that information to some manager. The persons directly involved with it are capable of dealing with it mindful of it's impact on the good of the whole because it's good for them. If you do not have that you would need a system of management, evaluation, and enforcement which basically demands the disruption in question is something easy to communicate and form policies around. Anything that cannot be just cannot be dealt with and the system falls under it's own weight. That's why technocracy is a delusion that is always doomed to fail, if the individual units in a system are unable to deal with aberrations on their own it requires the whole mass of bureaucracy to evaluate, construct policies, enforce etc. That is only capable of handling anything which is understandable to that kind of system, which is a small fraction of actual disruptions.

I appreciate the efforts of people trying to emulate the positives of Japanese cities mimicking the externals of it and enforcing it on other people is the opposite of any actual organic system and itself prohibits the more dynamic system that is required for an actually stable polity. If someone sees a wallet on the street they have to see it as their own self-interest not to steal it. If people do not see themselves as having a shared self-interest with those around them there is no enforcement or rules or policies that can make that polity stable or harmonious.

enaaem 1 day ago||
Singapore is a multi-culturial society and it is also known to be very safe and clean like Japan. You can definitely make people behave with top down rules, and eventually it just becomes 'culture'.
languagelearner 17 hours ago||
>You can definitely make people behave with top down rules, and eventually it just becomes 'culture'.

If by people you mean the particular type of people that live in Singapore, who are known across the world to be supple and tame. Now try this logic in the United States with certain subpopulations who are chronically misbehaved and see where it gets you. Hint: it's been tried for a long time and it doesn't work.

rangestransform 15 hours ago||
That was what singaporeans were like too when it split off from Malaysia, if enough people wanted to we could beat order and rule of law into the US. The problem is that too much of the US are bleeding hearts who oppose any law that even slightly inconveniences anyone unfortunate, and the other part of the US is stuck in a frontier mentality of the 1800s
languagelearner 14 hours ago||
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croes 1 day ago||
Maybe people just want to prevent getting arrested for a crime.

Seems like the hardly arrest the innocent, even if they didn’t do it

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/11/04/inquiry-needed-japans-fl...

zkmon 1 day ago||
> get to work without a car, do your shopping on foot

Some cities in Europe have town-centers in every neighborhood within walkable distance. This is extremely valuable for a livable city.

Getting to work without car requires good public transport. Again, some European cities very good at this.

adamgoodapp 1 day ago||
There are too many people that don't need taking elevators at busy stations. The amount of times I had to cary a pram up the stairs because waiting was too long.
akudha 1 day ago||
I wonder how much of these architecture, building etc decisions are because of higher percentage of aging population. In the west, we see more anti-homeless designs (spikes, removing benches in train stations etc) which is sad
languagelearner 17 hours ago||
You can get this in Morocco yet there's never any articles about that ... it's almost like they're leaving out a major reason why they like Japan and it's not that the cities are walkable.
burnerzzzzz 1 day ago||
this sets the bar very low. why would bbc not just go one of Europes many bicycle friendly cities?
hagbard_c 1 day ago||
The BBC forgot - or, as is more likely, refused to mention - rule #0: ensure a homogeneous culture with rather stringent rules around public behaviour.
netsharc 18 hours ago|
When I read comments like yours, I always read "homogeneous" as "ethnically pure", and judge the comment writer accordingly.

No debating about the stringent rules, which I'ver read comes from the Samurai times, but I think your projecting your idea of "racism works!"...

hagbard_c 10 hours ago||
> When I read comments like yours, I always read "homogeneous" as "ethnically pure", and judge the comment writer accordingly.

followed by:

> but I think your projecting your idea of "racism works!"...

You're judging what you want to see which says a lot about you and nothing about the comment. Let me spell it out for you so that you may not make this mistake next time:

Culture [1]: the way of life, especially the general customs and beliefs, of a particular group of people at a particular time

Ethnicity [2]: a large group of people with a shared culture, language, history, set of traditions, etc., or the fact of belonging to one of these groups

Neither the word culture (which I used) nor ethnicity (which you used) are related to race or racism (which you used as well). As you see, your claims of racism are in the eyes of the beholder, i.e. yours.

Drop it already, stop thinking in terms of race and racism. Do better as 'progressives' like to say, or educate yourself or whatever terms you prefer to use. Accept that not everyone thinks like you, in terms of race. Accept that most people use words like culture in their original meaning as stated above. Accept, in other words, that most people are not as race-fixated as you seem to be judging by your comment.

[1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/culture

[2] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/ethnicit...

netsharc 9 hours ago||
Fine, I'll consider anyone who uses "homogenous" a bigot from now on. Is that linguistically acceptable for you?

Freaking bigots, arguing about words rather than their bigotry...

shevy-java 1 day ago||
> "Japan is built to work for everyone," says Josh Grisdale

Well - the article does not talk about the more recent hostility to gaijin in Japan.

Example (article) from a year ago:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/09/21/j...

You can find similar articles by other media outlets. Japan has changed - and is changing. I've also noticed this on youtube, e. g. Paolo from Tokyo suddenly praising new restrictive laws. That was a strong indicator that Japan really fundamentally changed here. An old chinese stratagem is to hide the dagger behind the smile: https://www.echineselearning.com/blog/chinese-slang-hide-a-d...

I am not in any way applying that this applies to all japanese as such, of course; but I am more referring here to a trend where things are changing to the worse. Also, cost of living is high and there is an overcrowding problem in many of the cities. Even then I think the only city that would interest me is Tokio.

MiroslavPokorny 1 day ago||
I feel sorry for nearly every one Paolo visits....

Its like those people have no life, it seems to be a self imposed volunteer prison.

Work, sleep, work, repeat until you die.

Scrip 1 day ago||
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hypertexthero 1 day ago||
See also Jane Jacob’s The Death and Life of Great American Cities.
richardatlarge 1 day ago|
Quaint article you won't see in a few years, when everything with be about weather and climate. Nothing else will matter. Welcome to the apocalypse
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