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Posted by aemerson_ 1 day ago

Show HN: I spent 2 years designing a mechanical Magic Keyboard(electronicmaterialsoffice.com)
Hi HN, today I’m revealing Altar II, an ultra-low profile (4.75mm) mechanical keyboard designed to replace your Magic Keyboard. It’s the keyboard I wish Apple made.

Altar II has fully mechanical switches, plus a magnetically detachable dial, haptic feedback, a red backlight, and a native macOS companion app.

I’m a heavy Mac user and I feel that Apple hasn’t given its keyboards the attention they deserve, in terms of hardware, software, and features, so I set out to try and change that.

It was a massive undertaking and it has taken almost 2 years to get to this stage. One of the main obstacles was fitting a reasonably sized battery into the chassis, and aggressive power profiling without messing with the user experience. Another issue was we couldn’t fit any components on the underside of the PCB because there was literally no space to do so (and there are a lot of components).

Around 4 years ago I posted my first keyboard to HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32507172). Its response blew me away and ultimately led to me quitting my job and making and selling keyboards full time. I’ve taken some of the feedback from that original post and incorporated it into Altar II (e.g. the detachable dial).

I’ll be around to answer any questions. Please let me know what you think, I’d love to get some feedback.

291 points | 237 commentspage 2
cosmic_cheese 1 day ago|
Looks great, but at this point I’m too used to HHKB layout on custom MX/topre boards to go back to full time typical 65%/75% layouts. Standard Delete/Backspace position in particular is almost grating now. Totally understand if that’s too niche of a market to serve, though.

The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?

GZGavinZhao 1 day ago||
Opened the site, thought it was teenage engineering... Which is a compliment to me, because I always love their designs! Unfortunately as a HHKB user I'm not a fan of low profile keyboards otherwise I would've bought this.
aemerson_ 1 day ago||
I appreciate the TE comparison! I am very inspired by them. Maybe in the future we can make a thicker keyboard for you.
waffletower 1 day ago||
It couldn't have been Teenage Engineering: the keyboard was priced less than $999
StilesCrisis 1 day ago||
Is there any way to prop it up so it doesn't lay flat against the table?

I have round foam adhesive dots stuck to the bottom of my current Apple keyboards. It works, but it's an obvious deficiency in the design. Every other keyboard on the market has tilt.

charrondev 1 day ago||
I’m assuming it’s not possible for it to include a fingerprint sensor?

As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday.

Otherwise it looks beautiful.

aemerson_ 1 day ago||
Unfortunately not possible, at least not securely, and not in a way that users would expect. I really tried.

We could include _a_ fingerprint sensor, and even include a special secure/tamper-proof chip, but it would never be able to work with things like Apple Pay. It would probably be able to do some things like log you in to your Mac by spoofing itself as a card reader or secure key. But because we can’t communicate with Apple’s Secure Enclave it would never be a seamless experience.

Maybe someday Apple could open up Touch ID like they do with Find My. But for now it’s pretty much a non-starter.

cafebeen 1 day ago|||
Yes, agreed. Beautiful keyboard, but when I heard "magic" I hoped to find a touch ID. That sensor so useful that even though I use a mechanical keyboard, I keep an apple magic keyboard off to the side of my desk just for the touch ID sensor.

What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...

dbalatero 1 day ago|||
I've built a few boxes:

https://www.printables.com/model/355924-clickable-touch-id-b...

https://gist.github.com/KhaosT/1406a6b6bea38f59e059c2afcb39d...

You have to carefully tear down and extract the touch id sensor, and then remount it in a box. I went the battery route so it could stay wireless. The tradeoff is the box is bigger.

cafebeen 1 day ago||
Thank you, just what I was imagining! I would prefer a bigger wireless box as well.
xp84 1 day ago|||
Some people I know just velcro a Magic Keyboard to the bottom of their desktop for this reason.

So frustrating that Apple won't sell just a button even at any price. Gotta buy their terrible keyboard for $150 to get that. eyeroll

wuliwong 1 day ago|||
In my setup my laptop is close enough that I can reach out and use the fingerprint reader on it. It is stupid but I got used to it pretty quickly.
locknitpicker 1 day ago||
> In my setup my laptop is close enough that I can reach out and use the fingerprint reader on it.

Some mechanical keyboards ship with an embedded USB hub that supports a couple of USB ports that allow users to pick and choose what devices to plug in.

I wonder why this feature isn't widespread.

xp84 1 day ago||
Not arguing with the general usefulness of the USB hub, but Apple chooses to make their Touch ID sensor 100% proprietary, so the inclusion of a hub is a separate topic to the comment you're quoting. There's no USB Touch ID reader, other than a whole dang Apple-branded keyboard (which is wireless but will work as a USB device).
rxyz 1 day ago|||
20 times a day? You know you can disable touch id for simple password autofill
platevoltage 1 day ago||
I use my MacBook in clamshell mode 80% of the time, and password autofill just takes over by itself. Fingerprint ID is nice, but my mechanical keyboard is nicer.
ls-a 1 day ago||
Well there is this https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch
tpstevens 1 day ago||
And this as well, if you have a Magic Keyboard around: https://www.printables.com/model/320000-standalone-touch-id-...
iammrpayments 1 day ago||
Looks a lot like mistel airone: https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/9a36520f591f4f8b8e1253ab...

I used to use it everyday but the low profile switches sometimes get stuck and it’s also a little bit tiring to type.

I currently use nuphyair 60 HE, and I find the low sensitivity keys don’t tire my fingers.

philistine 1 day ago||
Very cool looking, but there is an ocean of mechanical keyboards already available with the US keyboard layout. I would explore making ISO international versions. That market is underserved. Because I wanted a mechanical keyboard with a CAN/CSA Z243.200-92 layout with Mac modifiers, I had to design my own layout in SVG for a Max Keyboards custom job. Keep in mind, I did not want to design my own, but I had to!
LeBit 1 day ago|
Tu connais Qwerty Lafayette?

https://qwerty-lafayette.org/

philistine 1 day ago||
Je suis gaucher, et j'ai fait le choix idiot quand j'étais jeune de mettre ma souris à gauche. C'est un choix très étrange, mais ça fait en sorte que je n'ai jamais eu à me troubler des touches supplémentaires à droite. Sont juste là, accessible, et pas dans mon chemin. Mon clavier est de pleine taille sans enjeu ergonomique pour moi.
LeBit 1 day ago||
J’utilise également une trackball à gauche de mon clavier à cause de douleurs à mon épaule droite.

L’avantage de Lafayette est que toutes les touches sont dans les deux blocs 3x5 du clavier.

C’est plus ergonomique, la gestion des accents est beaucoup plus logique et confortable et le layer des symboles est clairement fait pour faciliter les déplacements vi.

C’est le meilleur layout Qwerty pour développeurs francophones.

jonasmst 1 day ago||
I love it when people obsessively iterate over something seemingly trivial until it's exactly what they want. This looks amazing, congrats on the launch. I love mechanical keys, but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky. I would order this in a heartbeat if it was available with a nordic layout
TacticalCoder 1 day ago|
> ... but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky

For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk?

And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout.

Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that.

So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram?

I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.

jonasmst 1 day ago||
Clunky might have been the wrong word for it. Chunky? They're almost always too tall for my liking. I rest my palms on the desk while I type, I don't get how people do that with 20mm tall keyboards without straining their wrists. And I don't think people use mechanical keyboards for the switches themselves, but for the tactile typing experience the switches provide. Hence the appeal of this design: Mechanical, yet slim.
kanemarais 10 hours ago||
Banging design - perhaps one or two things I’d tone down a bit (numbers and dial). But overall nice work. Must have been fun to engineer.
wronex 1 day ago||
Really cool! I’d love to try those switches. Can’t imagine using a non-split keyboard though. Great work regardless. Stunning.
nxc18 1 day ago|
I agree that some aspects of the design are disagreeable, but it was an instant buy for me anyway.

I loved the idea of mechanical keyboards and tactile feel; etc etc. But I type faster on Magic Keyboard. Being able to have both is potentially a dream come true. Even if it falls short, I want to financially reward the effort.

But I am also very interested in the haptics - I like the haptics on Magic Trackpad and would like to see that part of the system advance further.

For context, since it is such an underused feature, on Magic Trackpad allows haptic feedback for non-force touch actions; key examples are snapping in pages/keynote and the snap-to-north on two finger rotate in maps.

There is a bug where this only works for internal trackpads on macOS Tahoe.

I can’t wait to try this keyboard.

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