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Posted by rbanffy 7 hours ago

US Military's cyber command unit grapples with cluster of deaths by suicide(www.bloomberg.com)
https://archive.ph/W2tpE
116 points | 151 comments
YesThatTom2 6 hours ago|
I suspect the Cold War of cyber warfare that is happening is orders of magnitude bigger than the public knows.

Imagine knowing this and not being able to get emotional support from your friends and family.

kstrauser 21 minutes ago||
This was a big thing for drone people based out of Eppley AFB in Omaha. Wake up, drive to work, attack enemies, drive home, sit there eating dinner with your family trying to pretend you didn’t kill someone and can’t talk about it. Combat troops get to lean on each other after a firefight: “dude, good shot. That guy was about to get us!” You get validation that you did something to safe you and your friends, and it’s still a heavy burden, but you have people who were there telling you that you’re a good person and did the right thing.

The Air Force did something shockingly reasonable (according to the newspaper coverage): they require all pilots to attend mandatory counseling sessions. Then there was no sign of weakness or any of that toxic nonsense. “Ugh, guess I have to go talk to the doc today, and I don’t want to, but guess orders are orders.”

cushychicken 2 hours ago|||
Used to work in this field. You're correct: not being able to talk about it is the worst part.

This is equally true of successes as well as challenges.

I did some cool, very impactful stuff in that job. I will go to jail for a long, long time if I ever go into detail about it.

grubbs 2 hours ago|||
Is there any type of internal support where you're allowed to chat about it?
cushychicken 14 minutes ago|||
It’s hard to say exactly what the folks in the article are grappling with, not working with them personally. I never got to the point where I was anywhere near personal crisis from my classified work. These folks sound like they were associated with some kind of wet ops or drone programs. Not fun to deal with.

I know cleared psychologists are a thing. I never tried to speak with one but I’m told demand is high, and the ones out there are typically very oversubscribed.

I may be a bad counter example to this article. I never had to cope with super severe depression or crisis, or conops that would bring me a ton of personal crisis.

I just see a commonality in struggling with not being able to talk about it. Work is too big a part of my life to not be able to discuss it freely. That did cost me something, personally. I’m glad it didn’t cost me anything as dear as what it cost the people in the original article.

halJordan 39 minutes ago|||
There are chaplains and in-agency psychologists, both can have classified conversations with you. The problem is that you cannot change the underlying causes of any illness/sickness
amarcheschi 2 hours ago||||
What can you say, if anything, without going into detail?
cushychicken 1 hour ago|||
It was, on a technical level, the most interesting work I’ve ever done. What people say about the US government being ahead of the commercially available technology curve is certainly true.

The work I did absolutely had positive impact on the world.

People rush to criticize and write off working in the defense sector, but it can be a very rewarding place to work. There are absolutely problems in that sector - bad management and regulatory capture being primary among them. (Ultimately, those are why I left.)

It’s hard to judge accurately from the outside. That’s the nature of classified work: by definition, you can’t know what you’re getting yourself into until you’ve jumped with both feet.

amarcheschi 15 minutes ago|||
Thanks
alexashka 43 minutes ago|||
> There are absolutely problems in that sector - bad management and regulatory capture being primary among them. (Ultimately, those are why I left.)

Where does 'murder' rank in your list of problems with 'the defense' sector?

Is it above or below the number of vacation days?

jckahn 33 minutes ago|||
Is the implication here that we should take the moral high ground and let our adversaries murder us first?
iso1631 2 minutes ago||
Well that would be fine if it was defence. But it's now the department of war, led by a person who has attacked two countries this year alone.
halJordan 31 minutes ago||||
Ah. Cool story bro. Meanwhile private equity doctors let their private corp owners kill people over insurance denials. But complain only when their malpractice copay rises.

Tech workers for Silicon Valley daily enable and positively contribute to the pervasive surveillance and exploitation of the majority of the world. To the point the poors cant even open the app or walk into the store without an algorithm raises prices to the mathematical max this person can afford. But they only complain when free bananas are removed from the snacks.

kingkawn 16 minutes ago||
Maybe everything you listed and nation state murders are all bad?
oh_fiddlesticks 35 minutes ago|||
A bit of an unconstructive, unwarranted jab, if I may say so.
lesuorac 2 hours ago||||
Everybody here is all so small minded.

The government has spent centuries doing spycraft and has a budget in the billions.

yndoendo 1 hour ago||
When you know you can't kill the message, kill the messenger.

This is the tactic used when journalist Gary Webb started reporting on the USA involvement with selling crack to Americans so they could fund Contra insurgents in Nicaragua.

They did this so well that other news organizations turned on the journalist.

I could easily imagine the USA not wanting to patch holes so they have access to the systems and these experts know this.

bigyabai 1 hour ago|||
If they worked there recently, they probably grappled with this in some capacity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Typhoon
jas- 2 hours ago||||
If you speak to the correct people about illegal activities and unlawful orders you will not.
jagged-chisel 2 hours ago|||
… you might not.

Have you noticed the current executive administration in the US?

itsdesmond 1 hour ago||||
It’s wild to, in a thread about an unusual number of suicides among a branch of government doing secret stuff, say that folks talking about that secret stuff would be a good idea.

I am absolutely not saying that is what’s happening here, suicide of folks put in stressful situations is to be taken seriously. But like… c’mon guy, surely this exact premise has been a direct-to-Amazon-Video release.

onemoresoop 1 hour ago||||
You’d likely get Snowdened in.
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 1 hour ago||||
I don't see anywhere that OP mentioned illegal activities or unlawful orders. Sounds like they're quite proud of what the accomplished.
MarkusQ 1 hour ago||||
Way to pull a Tokyo Rose; the GP was alluding to "cool" and "impactful" things they had done to keep us all safe from malicious actors and you try to twist it into "illegal activities" and "unlawful orders".

Do not think we aren't catching on to this kind of nonsense.

jas- 13 minutes ago|||
If the activities were truly cool and impactful, and not illegal or unlawful as you suggest, wouldn’t it be possible that the suicide could be due to a culture of not speaking out and then left to deal with the after effect of guilt? A slanderous retort vs a different lens to review the events isn’t helpful
runtime_terror 54 minutes ago|||
So we're to trust an anon supposed ex officer saying they're doing good things there despite all the clear evidence to the contrary?
throwaway-11-1 51 minutes ago|||
Wow crazy, what’s it like having a job with absolutely zero ethical consideration?
rozap 49 minutes ago|||
Plenty of people work at Meta.
techpression 25 minutes ago|||
I think most people think the ethical values are far higher in those jobs than most random startup bs just wasting resources.

I definitely do, I would rather work in the military than Meta/Amazon/Microsoft/Any online gambling/and loads of other shit companies.

markus_zhang 1 hour ago|||
This thing probably never stops and doesn’t have holidays. I read about Operation Gladio back in the day, which was not a cyber operation, but a preparation of guerrilla operations in case the WP occupied EU. But I got the feeling that the war in darkness (cyber is part of it) is non-stop.
cookiengineer 4 hours ago|||
There's lots of people working for NATO and federal agencies in Europe that have been assassinated by the luckystrike branch of the FSB. The name comes from the Telegram account with underscores in between, and they're essentially recruiting kids or former inmates for GTA style missions.

Starts with simple stuff like package rerouting, then goes on to gathering intel about places, people, putting in USB flash drives to their laptops, theft, death threats, arsony, and actual murder. Each step of the way the kids get deeper into trouble because they have to prove that they have done it for the payout, making photos of themselves... which gives the other end increasingly more doxxing material on them.

It's a real problem, and they use the luckystrike branch also to go after witnesses in big lawsuit cases, which then fall off due to all witnesses accidentally dying under seemingly random causes.

Loquebantur 4 hours ago|||
What gets overlooked here is the US IC itself being a probable cause: the habit of "housecleaning" by killing individuals suspected to be possible (even only prospective) leaks of information is very real.

The recent cluster of weird deaths and disappearances of scientists linked to secret military research has a similar pattern to it: a statistically highly unlikely density of "suicides, accidents & mishaps".

strictnein 1 hour ago|||
> "is very real"

Except it's not.

quickthrowman 2 hours ago||||
> The recent cluster of weird deaths and disappearances of scientists linked to secret military research has a similar pattern to it

The pattern being that the deaths and disappearances among people with top secret clearances is lower than the national average would suggest.

> According to science writer Mick West, more than 700,000 people work in top-secret-cleared positions in the U.S. aerospace and nuclear sectors. When viewed against existing mortality rates and causes, this would suggest around 250 persons in the industry would normally succumb to homicides and suicides over the time-period during which the 10 or 11 alleged "missing scientists" had died or disappeared, with thousands more dying of natural causes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_scientists_conspiracy_...

neuroticnews25 6 minutes ago||
Just think how many ordinary people they have to randomly kill to keep it that way.
SubiculumCode 2 hours ago||||
If so, then the family members of the president are in danger!
XorNot 2 hours ago||||
You have absolutely no information on whether this is probable or likely, and the recent news on scientists was a conspiracy theory powered as usual by a cherry picking facts and exaggerating biographies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_scientists_conspiracy_...

wbl 2 hours ago|||
The US doesn't even kill foreign leaders. Our intelligence service doesn't have the skills or appetite, let alone citizens. The resulting scandal would make the Church commission look like nothing, not to mention the impact on recruitment.
TheMayorOfDunce 1 hour ago|||
Surely you've reached the conclusion by now that "resulting scandal" no longer steers policy, or even any noteworthy degree of public outrage.
a2800276 2 hours ago|||
Yes, they only kill random fishermen in the Caribbean, foreign leaders get kidnapped and tried in kangaroo courts. Except Iranian leaders, those do get killed. But that's just the last 6 months.
wbl 2 hours ago||
Those were military not CIA. The distinction really matters!
krapp 1 hour ago||
>The distinction really matters!

to whom?

breppp 1 hour ago|||
Haven't found a lot about it online, other than https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7786/artykul/3438674,russian...

Do you have any references about it?

This is very reminiscent of Iranian intelligence modus operandi in Israel and world wide lately, currently with not a lot to show for

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/06/how-iran-sough...

cookiengineer 1 hour ago||
> Do you have any references about it?

Before someone from the US claims some leftist bullshit about this (as this is what Russian bots typically do), here's a mix of newspapers including more right/conservative ones:

- https://www.blick.ch/schweiz/polizei-warnt-eltern-teenies-we...

- https://www.mdr.de/ratgeber/finanzen/telegram-gruppe-jobange...

- https://www.sicher-im-netz.de/europol-warnt-kriminelle-rekru...

- https://www.fr.ch/de/sjsd/pol/news/die-kantonspolizei-freibu...

- https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland-und-internationales/euro...

- https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-press/newsroom/news/euro...

- https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/04/teenagers-being-recruited-b...

- https://nltimes.nl/2026/04/29/europol-children-recruited-vio...

Also check netzpolitik and other CCC-related media outlets, there's been extensive research about this topic from us. (Didn't want to post articles where I've personally been involved, but you can find them easily with similar search keywords.)

golem14 9 minutes ago||
This is essentially one article about criminals recruiting young people. Is Russia FSB (or even Russia)even mentioned?

I also believe the premise is true (why would it not, it's the logical thing for every nation state to do), but your research could be a bit deeper.

YesThatTom2 6 hours ago|||
(Replying to my own post). Also, it’s gotta be mentally draining to be told by the president they have to win but also always let Russian attacks though.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/defens...

rbanffy 6 hours ago|||
Presidents come and go and, hopefully, this one will be held accountable.
aeortiz 4 hours ago|||
I'm an agnostic, but when I read about what he does, it makes me devoutly wish that hell exists. He has made countless people's lives hell on earth, and he doesn't care at all. No one is holding him accountable in this life: it's inconvenient for those in power.
Loquebantur 3 hours ago|||
It's a systemic issue, not due to one man.

What gets overlooked here is the US IC itself being a probable cause: the habit of "housecleaning" by killing individuals suspected to be possible (even only prospective) leaks of inconvenient information is very real.

The recent cluster of weird deaths and disappearances of scientists linked to secret military research has a similar pattern to it: a statistically highly unlikely density of "suicides, accidents & mishaps".

The assumption, those actions were "justified" somehow is entirely baseless: there is no transparency and no effective oversight. What is supposedly being kept secret there might simply be illegal corruption or embarrassing and inconvenient to those in power.

TFNA 1 hour ago|||
Almost every discussion here on HN about those "deaths and disappearances of scientists linked to secret military research" has been about how, when you actually dig into the data, they have been very statistically likely.
andrewflnr 46 minutes ago|||
There are long standing systemic issues, and then there's also one man making things dramatically worse in new, stupider ways.
ajsnigrutin 2 hours ago|||
So have many others before him.

The only difference is, is that before him we had "Iraq has weapons for mass destruction! we must attack them, before they attack us, we're in danger!", and now there's "we're going in and we're taking the oil!".

So from "we can do whatever we want if we lie" turned into "we can do whatever we want", not really relevant to all the people killed.

But hey, some americans would say that "It's worth it" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP_VnVlFhXU

fn-mote 1 hour ago||
Nobody is holding up those other guys as shining paragons of virtue either.

“Other people did it too” is not an excuse for immoral behavior.

I think the parent and I basically agree.

SubiculumCode 2 hours ago||||
Not every nation survives a tyrant by the virtue of patience.
DivingForGold 1 hour ago||
Especially in Russia...
squidbeak 6 hours ago||||
Just as important, the US will need to figure out exactly what strings Putin's managed to attach to Trump - kompromat? threats? bribes? elaborate man management? something else? - or this vulnerability could be exploited again.
inigyou 5 hours ago|||
None. No vulnerability. The population and the RNC just voted for a known Russian asset for some reason.
SubiculumCode 2 hours ago|||
Our vulnerability is an open internet that includes Russia, leaving our populace completely open to Russian influence campaigns of micro targeted propaganda, recruitment, and incitement.
analognoise 1 hour ago||
I like how the “Chinese propaganda” against datacenters was found to be mostly a collection of facts.

While Russian propaganda is more clumsy and emotional, we’ve produced such an unequal society with such low regular education and outright corruption that people fall for it. That says something negative about US, not them.

If we admit our system cant even survive an open internet, it should be dismantled or reformed rather than free exchange closed.

SubiculumCode 1 hour ago|||
Education would blunt, but not eliminate the threat of nation-state funded micro targeted influence campaigns. Moreover, it would take years, and we have the problem now.

In terms of data center propaganda and fact. Both are true. China is funding anti data center sentiment for geopolitical power, while at the same time, there are legitimate reasons for people to not like/ or fear AI. The problem is we (the U.S.) have to solve both. We cannot let China have significantly better AI models than we have because that is a real national security threat, while AI also threatens potential mass destruction dangers and an avenue of utter concentration of wealth, etc

don_esteban 1 hour ago||||
This.

I lived in a communistic country, where BBC/Voice of America/Radio free Europe were banned/jammed, under the pretext of 'your feeble minds will not be able to resist the insidious allure of western burgeois propaganda'.

Seeing the same argumentation from the west's side is disheartening. We are now in the west, but (almost) full circle back where were before.

CamperBob2 41 minutes ago|||
I like how the “Chinese propaganda” against datacenters was found to be mostly a collection of facts.

That's not my understanding. Got any credible links that back up this point?

pjc50 10 minutes ago|||
Propaganda and bribery. Things like the Hungarian funding of CPAC and the NRA holding a July 4 celebration in Russia some years ago.

The weak spot was the conservative prediction to fascism - worship of force and masculinity - which was easily retargeted against other Americans.

estearum 5 hours ago||||
It's almost certainly just that Trump is a fundamentally fragile, insecure man. He has proven over and over that he will happily fellate (proverbially speaking) any man who says nice things about him, and at least refrain from assaulting most women who say nice things too.

Putin (and everyone else) knows this.

lesuorac 6 hours ago||||
Idk maybe there is something nefarious but afaik Putin's always been cordial with Trump as well as let him do various investments in Russia. I'm not sure there's much reason for Trump to alienate his friend; if you've ever see Trump's staff meetings you'll know how much cordiality is important to him.
TheOtherHobbes 5 hours ago||||
All of the above, plus death threats.

Trump isn't the weakness. The weakness is the almost complete collapse of the checks and balances around the president. If those were in place Trump would have been in prison by the end of 2021 at the very latest.

The DOJ, the military, both houses, the AIPAC wing of the Democrats, and corporate media are all fully captured. So are "independent" organisations like the NRA.

The Supreme Court is mostly captured. The lower levels of the judiciary are still holding out, but have limited enforcement ability without the DOJ.

noir_lord 5 hours ago||
It's why I don't see the US making the course correction it actually needs - realistically the "best" feasible outcome is that a presidential election is held and a business as usual democrat is elected who will immediately not address any of the problems for whatever reason (part of the system/paid by the same people pick one).

Candidates come and go but the system endures and it is the system that is rotten at every level all the way down to the core.

Then 4-8 years later the GOP candidate wins subservient to the same interests as Trump and the US Gov is back there again.

Not really sure what the outcome is for the US at this point, things will have to get a great deal worse before enough Americans decide this is unacceptable but that state can last years/decades before the dam breaks.

SubiculumCode 2 hours ago||
The winning Presidential campaign message would be this: I promise to work to reduce the power of the Presidency via supporting and campaigning for legislation and Constitutional amendments. It is time for Congress to once again be ascendent like it was in the first century of our great Republic.

We need a G. Washington, who refused more power than he was offered, setting precedents and expectations.

don_esteban 58 minutes ago||
No, that is your wishful thinking.

Based on recent years and the power of personalized AI influence campaigns, the winning Presidential campaign message (after 4 years of 'change nothing substantial Democrat' would most likely be 'I need real, full (silently: fascist) power, to finally drain the swamp'.

AngryData 1 hour ago||||
I think Trump is just that naturally that stupid and always has been.
oneshtein 5 hours ago|||
Epstein files?
MBCook 1 hour ago|||
You’re kidding right?
dismalaf 2 hours ago||||
> always let Russian attacks though

The article doesn't say anything of the sort. Literally just said to put a halt on OFFENSIVE operations.

If I were to guess I'd say it was an overly ambitious negotiation tactic.

Also, that was a year and a half ago. The current status quo is that Ukraine is producing more drones than Russia can deal with, bombing Russian targets daily and the US-Ukraine relationship is much closer, with Ukraine sharing drone technology and intel with the US.

manoDev 5 hours ago||||
The new US policy under Trump is giving up trying to win the world and instead focusing on internal market and dominance over the American continent. Causing and sustaining friction everywhere is aligned with this policy.

This is the result of a shift of power in the US politics, from the global financial capital of the last decades back to the military and industrial sector.

atmavatar 3 hours ago|||
The new US policy under Trump is to burn everything down while extracting as much wealth for himself and his cronies as possible.
onemoresoop 1 hour ago||
And creating so much chaos afterwards that it becomes impossible to recover any of it
Forgeties79 5 hours ago|||
> The new US policy under Trump is giving up trying to win the world and instead focusing on internal market and dominance over the American continent.

Is that why he bombed Iran and single-handedly caused a global energy crisis? A shift of focus to “dominance of the American continent”?

serf 4 hours ago|||
Well yeah, probably -- during this self made crisis oil prices in the US are some of the most well controlled.

Destabilizing everywhere else is a potential step taken toward achieving continental superiority in certain regards.

( not a GOOD step, mind you)

exe34 2 hours ago||||
He's just doing his best to make everybody switch to renewables!
anon7725 1 hour ago||
Blocking foreign-made solar power inverters must be part of that master plan:

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-423682A1.pdf

manoDev 2 hours ago|||
> Is that why he bombed Iran and single-handedly caused a global energy crisis?

Yes. Oil price hurts China industrial capacity more than the US economy. Oil companies made a $93 billion profit amid the war [1]. The US is a net oil exporter, while China halved their oil imports [2].

ExxonMobil and Chevron are US-incorporated. TotalEnergies (French) BP (UK), Shell (UK) also have significant US-based ownership (~50%, ~25% and ~25% respectively), including BlackRock, Vanguard, mutual funds, and US pension funds.

> A shift of focus to “dominance of the American continent”?

1. Venezuela was under embargo and selling oil to China. The Nicolas Maduro hijack and the country's political realignment with US will have the double effect of negating oil to China and securing large nearby reserves.

2. Argentina has a Trump-aligned president, who is vocal about undermining the Mercosul agreement and is currently in diplomatic attrition with Brazil. Recently signed a $20 billion loan from FMI.

3. Paraguay signed a treaty for a US forward operation base in their territory. The Paraguay border is home to a large hydroelectric, a major power source for 3 countries: Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil.

4. Colombia has a new Trump aligned president. It's a young president with no political background. The US State Department announced a $1 billion assistance upon his election for military investment.

5. Peru’s new president Keiko Fujimori is Trump-aligned.

6. Chile’s new president Jose Antonio Kast is Trump-aligned.

7. US retaliated against the prosecution of former Trump-aligned Brazil president for attempted coup by announcing an 50% emergency tariff (which didn't hold legally), then crafting a Section 301 investigation to justify a 25% tariff in July 2026.

8. US is giving asylum to the former president's son, who is vocal on social media about defending the US tariffs as retaliation, defends military intervention of the US in Brazil, as well as stating (but without proof) that Brazilian polls are rigged – not the one his father ran and won, apparently.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2026/aug...

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/EconomyCharts/comments/1uxdx8p/chin...

lesuorac 2 hours ago|||
> The US is a net oil exporter, while China halved their oil imports [2].

This seems to be the opposite point you want.

Everybody is going to have increased expenses for everything due to their oil dependency _except_ China. Which will raise the price of Chinese exports to the market price but giving China a lot of producer surplus.

Or China can keep doing it's Belt & Road plans and grant other countries money to help with their oil problems in exchange for territory. Or also keep prices lower to continue hollowing out other countries manufacturing capabilities.

--

The leaders of South America claiming to be "Trump aligned" is good for Trump. Trump is not the average american citizen. And boy will those leaders flip the second he's out of the presidency.

manoDev 1 hour ago||
It's believed China managed to halve oil imports due to large (undisclosed) reserves, emergency public policies and overdriving coal use, but this can't last. China is also extremely dependent on Russian oil, which is a country at conflict and having its key infrastructure destroyed. China is building their renewable energy capacity fast, but this has to be quick started on oil.

Increasing oil prices have the double effect of slowing China expansion and energetic transition long-term while increasing dollar demand in the short term - just look what happened to gold prices once Iran war started.

The new Trump-aligned leaders of South America are puppets to secure cheap, nearby materials and food in a future world in conflict, where the US has to re-industrialize rapidly. The US navy would be spread too thin, and the US currently doesn't even have capacity to build its navy - the US recently sought the help of South Korea in this matter.

Please note none of this my opinion, the current US foreign policy strategy is a public fact. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donroe_Doctrine

Forgeties79 32 minutes ago||
> Please note none of this my opinion, the current US foreign policy strategy is a public fact.

This is beyond arrogant and makes discussion impossible. Your opinion is not automatically a 100% accurate reflection reality because you have citations.

Forgeties79 2 hours ago|||
that’s a lot of words about South America in order to paper over what we are all currently feeling at the pump and in the economy at large. Between his incoherent tariff policies and the paltry job numbers we are seeing, I think you’re going to have a hard time convincing me he’s doing things that are good for us domestically. I’m not even touching the heated social issues he’s been pouring gas all over.
exe34 2 hours ago|||
The US and Russia are allies.
aetch 1 hour ago||
No, despite what the conservatives and Fox News say, we are not
PunchyHamster 30 minutes ago||
Does US know it ? Coz it certainly acts like one for most part of the war
salemh 3 hours ago|||
[dead]
rightbyte 2 hours ago||
How about that they do bad stuff and feel bad about it? You make it sound like they are taking a bullet or something. Desillusion is probably way worse.
nosmokewhereiam 1 hour ago||
Glad to see this brought up! My entire Air Force experience is blocked to comment on besides basic training...Tech school and forward is NDA'd, read in, etc

You don't really get to sneak a glimpse of operations and write a book like the SEALs seem get to (jk!)

halJordan 23 minutes ago||
Your tech school is not nda'd.
johnnyApplePRNG 1 hour ago||
So just suffer in silence because you signed some papers when you were too young to understand what they really meant?

That's horrible.

I almost signed up for the Canadian Military back in the early 2000s and I think my lucky stars every day that I skipped that last recruitment meeting.

someothherguyy 7 hours ago||
"Between early June and early July, as many as five individuals who worked in or closely with US Cyber Command died by suicide, based on internal communications, public records and sources. The deaths have raised concern among lawmakers and military leaders within the highly secretive command, which is responsible for defending US networks and conducting offensive cyber operations."

According to https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-25-107121.pdf there are ~17,000 authorized positions

paulmist 6 hours ago||
Assuming a predominantly male population, the suicide rate should be around 20 per 100000 per year. 5 people in a month gives 18x higher rate. Too short period to draw any statistical conclusions but it’s a large blip.
dcanelhas 5 hours ago|||
The suicide rate isn't uniformly distributed given gender. There are likely screenings (previous mental health history) and rejection of the most affected age group (70+) that should lead the baseline to be even lower. Meaning 18x is probably on the low end.
paulmist 3 hours ago||
Definitely a rough estimate! I recon base rate is also higher amongst military personnel & it’s not uniformly distributed there either.
acdha 4 hours ago||||
I think you’d have some statistical complications around stress: beyond the inherent pressure of the job itself, it’s highly likely that they were understaffed even before losing a lot of support when the DOGE chainsaws were in “cut first, measure later” mode — I know multiple people in the military who are still running at like half productivity because telework was cancelled so everyone’s day is a couple hours longer commuting into an office where they’re sitting on the floor because there aren’t enough desks — and if they were married to another federal employee they might be dealing with loss of income or childcare (DOGE closed the GSA office which handled that, apparently to pressure parents into resigning) at the same time.
harimau777 1 hour ago||||
I think that it would be necessary to correct for things like income and education level since engineers in cyber command are likely not representative of the general public.
raffael_de 1 hour ago||
i'm pretty sure that segment has lower than average suicide rate. well paid, well educated.
y-curious 1 hour ago||
I agree with you generally but a lot of professions that are well-paid and educated still have high rates. Dentists, for example, are 2x the general population
raffael_de 1 hour ago||
most medical professions have higher rate. it's usually attributed to being constantly subjected to pain and suffering plus physicians can source pharmaceuticals to exit softly. never heard that it professionals are particularly prone to suicide.
hylaride 1 hour ago||||
Stress, PTSD, and overwork can and do aggravate mental health issues. All of these are probably hitting these people - probably at the same time.
jandrewrogers 3 hours ago|||
This particular population is highly selected because of the work they do and the types of clearances they hold. I would expect the suicide rate to differ significantly from the general population.
01100011 2 hours ago||
> In some cases, they suffer from insomnia, memory loss, rumination and physical illness,

So, like most middle-aged desk jockeys then?

> “There’s always a crisis and everything’s always a priority,” said Schoka. “We would burn people out faster than we could produce them.”

Sounds a lot like my job...

halJordan 24 minutes ago|||
Ah yes- your old job where your boss could put you on twelve hour shiftwork indefinitely while making you pt while denying you adequate housing or food all under the threat of military justice and telling you if you tell anyone anything you're breaking a dozen national security laws.
bluefirebrand 1 hour ago|||
> > In some cases, they suffer from insomnia, memory loss, rumination and physical illness,

> So, like most middle-aged desk jockeys then?

Is this really so common? I'm 38 and had some medical issues this past year, but one of the big things I've been grappling with is severe brain fog and memory loss. I could not tell you any of the projects I worked on in my previous three years, honestly. Maybe longer. It's been pretty demoralizing

aga98mtl 5 hours ago||
There is a tv show about in-the-know government employees dying by suicide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_%28miniseries%29
somenameforme 1 hour ago||
I'm curious if LLMs have a role here. They're phenomenally capable at cyber stuff, and the military is without doubt taking full advantage of this. For people who's sole identity is tied into something that LLMs become better than them at, it seems easy to imagine that zooming straight on over to existential crisis territory.
halJordan 42 minutes ago||
Absolutely not. The problem is solely op tempo since the Iran war started. Leadership in cyber is famous for "surging" It's quite normal. But cyber specifically refuses to allow the surge to end. It becomes "the new normal." This was already straining the force before the Iran war but the civilian leadership now demand constant cyber effects and that pressure cascades down. It's hard to emphasize how effective cyber is, bc of course you want proof. But the proof is in the optempo and you can see that leadership is literally killing their Soldiers to get more and more of it.
jerrythegerbil 19 minutes ago||
The LLMs play a part, but it’s the tempo; the pace.

Fully autonomous w/LLM isn’t true. Leadership wants it true. The technological capabilities and acceptance of scapegoating a machine got rejected by society, so that leaves perfectly capable individuals as the gatekeepers of decision making, completely overloaded by the amount of information they need to deal with.

If you as a human can’t keep up, but the onslaught continues, and you’ll be held responsible for the outcome regardless… yeah. People will punch their ticket out. It’s not unique to LLMs, but LLMs have certainly automated the process of reaching the worst possible conclusion.

Don’t for a second try to hold the computers accountable or blame them for this outcome. This is a leadership issue and always will be. Believing otherwise is just allowing suicides to be scapegoated as a computer’s doing.

glimshe 6 hours ago||
Wasn't there something similar with scientists recently? I wonder how much of that is just statistical noise.
YesThatTom2 6 hours ago||
That turned out to be false. Normal attrition / vacation time.
Loquebantur 3 hours ago||
That's gross disinformation and patently untrue.
cyanydeez 6 hours ago|||
Yes, there was a lot of statistical noised amplified by the conspiracy theorist media.
dijksterhuis 6 hours ago||
yep, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyw9rpdl4po

> "The US Top Secret-cleared aerospace and nuclear workforce is ~700,000 people," science writer, investigator and pseudoscience debunker Mick West wrote on 16 April on his Substack.

> "Ordinary mortality over 22 months predicts ~4,000 deaths, ~70 homicides, and ~180 suicides. The list has 10 … The deaths are real. The families' grief is real. The pattern is not."

> Louise Grillmair, similarly, says that - while her husband "would laugh" at speculation that the deaths might be connected - he would also "probably talk statistically" to squelch conspiracies.

anigbrowl 25 minutes ago|||
I'm not sure how much value there is in comparing it with ordinary mortality considering the fairly strict selectivity on handing out TS clearances. You're definitely not going to give one to anyone who looks like an alcoholic or habitual drug user. You'll be less likely to give one out to people who struggle with cravings like heavy smokers or the morbidly obese. Gambling and financial instability are are also exclusionary factors. You would prioritize people who are highly disciplined and exhibit a preference for fitness and a survival mindset in general. So before you get into psychological issues at all, your population will be significantly healthier than the median, less likely to fall victim to homicide, and have fewer life problems than the general population.

A useful comparator is military suicides, which are a growing problem; among enlisted ranks (E1-E4) the rate is about 26/100k. Enlisted personnel tend to be younger, less well educated, have less personal autonomy, and earn less money etc. Among commissioned officers (with command authority) and warrant officers (occupational specialists) the rate falls to ~14/100k, nearly half. Non-combat morbidity exhibits similar disparities. I would guess that the selectivity for TS clearance is more rigorous that the occupational qualification alone.

inigyou 5 hours ago|||
AI wrote the second quote
Loquebantur 3 hours ago||
Probably, more importantly: it's a lie.
mycall 1 hour ago||
Were any of these suicides by falling out of a window? That might imply involvement of certain foreign actors.
slim 56 minutes ago|
no, which obviously implies involvement from US government
genxy 45 minutes ago||
Suicide or closing the loop?
strictnein 1 hour ago||
It's sad how many people are commenting on this with insane conspiracy theories and that people are actually responding in support of them. Really shows how falling into echo chambers online and buying into conspiracy theories can cause significant harm to ones ability to think rationally.
graemep 40 minutes ago|
Its only a conspiracy theory if people on the other side of politics believe it

Nothing like politics to make people miss the beam in their own eye

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