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Posted by gumby 1 day ago

Can Intel finally beat ARM on performance per Watt?(hackaday.com)
211 points | 193 commentspage 2
JSR_FDED 1 day ago|
Does it maintain the same performance when running only on battery?
aryonoco 1 day ago||
Intel’s low end SoCs are such an undervalued gem.

A couple of years ago I got tired of dealing with OpenWRT and various Tomato based firmware or hunting down compatibility between ARM and MIPS based routers. I finally took the plunge and bought myself a mini pc with an Intel N100.

The thing has 4 cores (no SMT), a 6W TDP and boosts to 3.4 GHz and can support 16GB of ram. The mini pc I bought cost me $200, includes the processor as well 4x Intel 10Gbps Ethernet ports. At 6W, it needs no fan, and the whole chassis is metal and specifically designed to act as a heatsink, which means 0 noise and 0 moving parts.

I ran a power virus on it for a few hours to test the thermals, and on a warm day in Melbourne, after hours of having all 4 cores running full throttle, CPU temperature never exceeded 90 C and the chassis barely hit 55 C.

The best thing about it? Full upstream support for any Linux distro and FreeBSD. No more wondering if this particular Broadcom chipset needs a weird binary blob, no more being hostage to an OEM and having to run old forked kernels.

I installed OPNSense on it, VESA mounted it behind our TV, and it hasn’t been seen or heard since. Not only has it been the most reliable router I’ve ever had at home, it’s providing various other services such as DNS server, apt cache, WireGuard server and client etc for my homelab.

I’ve been waiting for ARM to get here since ARMv8 was announced in 2011, but it just hasn’t happened.

Long live x86.

podocarp 1 day ago||
Personally have the same experience too. I am tired trying to find out if the xyzPi of the day boards can do Linux. Vendors should also try harder. There are so many boards that release with half baked implementations or proprietary blobs. x86 always just works. Devices are also almost always just pcie devices even for those mini PCs with lots of interfaces. Compare to something like bananapi R4 that I think have some oddities with a mux chip not available in vanilla linux…

It's also super easy to spec out your own devices in this regime on x86. There are mini itx boards with n100/n305 with pcie slots so you can add your own cards, and the n100 has a surprisingly number of available lanes for its small size.

There just seems to be no viable "just works" solution in the below 10 or 20W range apart from raspberry pi, and Intel n100/n305.

kvemkon 23 hours ago||
> bought myself a mini pc with an Intel N100

Instead of Raspi I've got a N100 uATX mainboard with N100 (120 EUR). Fortunately it does work with normal 32GB DIMM (55 EUR, those were the days!). But I'm still missing a pico-PSU, which can be powered directly from 220V (for reasonable costs).

bearjaws 1 day ago||
Depends on whether the OS actually puts the laptop or sleep or not.
jeffbee 1 day ago||
It's long been possible (since Alder Lake at the latest) to tune Intel CPUs for task energy consumption competitive with Apple Silicon, but bone-headed OEMs including Apple always tuned them the other way, wasting a lot of power for tiny performance gains. It is inappropriate to say that you evaluated the perf per watt on a Core Ultra 7 265K because what you really evaluated was how HP, Lenovo, or Dell configured that chip. But for years it has been the case that with one of the Atom variants (Gracemont, Skymont, ___mont) tuned to non-ridiculous scaling modes (capped at 2GHz, say) the energy story is quite good. The Apple platform does not have eager scaling and this is part of their efficiency story.
aurareturn 1 day ago|
Max power Intel consumer chips are already losing to Apple chips in raw performance, especially ST. Tuning them for better perf/watt by turning down the Ghz would just make them even less competitive in performance.

- Performance

- Performance/watt

- Die area

These are the 3 things determine a competitive chip. You can increase perf/watt but decrease performance. You can increase performance by giving the chip a lot of cache and transistors but it's more costly to manufacture.

The problem is that Intel chips are losing in all 3 areas simultaneously against Apple chips. They are slower, less efficient, and the CPU cores are bigger physically.

dyauspitr 1 day ago||
Well, they beat even TSMC on performance so they’re at least halfway there.
bitwize 1 day ago||
Betteridge's Law of Headlines
varispeed 1 day ago||
Why people are excited about Intel barely matching already outdated CPUs of the competition?

Shouldn't we be concerned that the company instead of aiming for the leap is producing legacy hardware destined for landfill?

Wake me up when Intel produces something groundbreaking.

margalabargala 1 day ago||
Comments like this one remind me of all the people saying "China can't invent things, they can only copy the US" 20 years ago.

Like, we're comparing a new Dell to a Mac released only 4 months ago. How did you feel about the Mac Neo then, and now? Is it also legacy hardware destined for the landfill?

geerlingguy 1 day ago|||
Not only that, the efficiency (FP64, HPL) is also beating all the M4/M3/M2/M1 systems I've tested besides the M4 Mac mini: https://github.com/geerlingguy/top500-benchmark#results

I think the bigger news is Intel's made a chip that isn't just pushing clocks to hit some performance number, they've actually tuned clocks for efficiency... which also leads to much better battery life.

And the fan on the system in the original article[1] also allows the Intel system to run substantially faster for longer tasks (where the Neo thermally saturates and has to stay throttled).

(The iGPU is another matter... sadly still a bit lacking.)

I'm hoping Intel makes a follow-up to the N100-series chips with just four of their newer low power E-cores.

[1] https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2026/excited-for-intel-eff...

GeekyBear 1 day ago|||
Efficiency is one thing.

Efficiency and performance is another.

We've long known that pushing clock speeds results in diminishing efficiency, so it's about time we see Intel stop pushing the clocks (and power) so hard that the chip melts down and the battery drains quickly.

AnthonyMouse 1 day ago|||
Intel's actual problem was that their process fell behind TSMC's. That meant competing on performance per watt was out of the question and the best they could do was turn up the clock speed and try to stay on top for performance.

If they've managed to fix their process then they don't have to do that anymore.

GeekyBear 22 hours ago||
They have finally prioritized buying leading edge Fab technology over stock buybacks, so their design team finally has a chance.
mr_toad 1 day ago|||
“But they can’t match Intels performance” used to be the rejoinder of the Intel crowd. Now we’ve come full circle.
GeekyBear 23 hours ago||
Until Intel is capable of making a fanless laptop chip that also has industry leading single core performance, they aren't in the same ballpark.
bigyabai 21 hours ago||
Getting sustained single-core performance requires you to push the P-cores to junction temp. It's only efficient in bursty workloads, under load it will go back to Intel-tier efficiency.
lowbloodsugar 1 day ago|||
Ok so Intel managed to make a 20W TDP chip that gets 6.x Gflops/W. Call me back when they’ve got a chip that still gets 6.x Gf/W with a 200W 1,200Gflop package like the M3 next on your list. This little fellow is only 50% more efficient than my aging M1 Max!

It’s great that they are making progress. Competition is good. They certainly need good news right now. I have exactly one intel cpu in my house in a NUC I got off eBay and it’s about to be replaced by my M4 mini. My other x86 are Zen (threadripper, 5800x3d, 5950s).

lostlogin 1 day ago|||
> I have exactly one intel cpu in my house in a NUC I got off eBay and it’s about to be replaced by my M4 mini.

Do some tests pre and post upgrade. It’s ridiculous how efficient the mini is. My power usage is about 1/12 what it was with a Nuc.

geerlingguy 1 day ago|||
Yeah, the first step is they realize pushing clocks is not the most important thing; second step is to apply that to other chips they make too! I want to see more desktop and server chips getting closer to Arm efficiency.
dochtman 1 day ago||||
I don’t think it’s completely unfair to say that the Neo is based on a chip that was first announced in Sep 2024 while the Intel chip is from Apr 2026.

Also, I think the battery life most people are practically interested in is more like running (close to) idle and less like the number of Watts spent when running maxed out, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Arm chips still win on that metric…

MBCook 1 day ago||
Plus it’s a phone chip. Yeah it’s used in the Neo but it’s no M5.

It’s good Intel got to this point, but you can’t declare them tied with Apple. They qualified for the real race, which us great, but they're not going to win with that chip.

hamandcheese 1 day ago||
Doesn't it being a phone chip make the efficiency claim more impressive, not less?

Moreover, from tfa:

> This Dell also beats out both M4 and M3 Mac Studios, only failing to the M4 Mac Mini at 7.57 Gflops/W.

MBCook 1 day ago||
I haven’t followed the PC chip business anywhere near as much as I used to around the turn of the millennium. I was under the impression Intel actually made a few chips that could go quite low power. The problem was their performance sucked.

It’s good that this performs good and can go low power, but the big question to me is whether they can scale it up without it becoming a power sucking furnace.

There’s no other comment somewhere in here, where someone is pointing out that that was in FP64, which is not something most people use. Especially people who are going to buy a computer like this.

I suspect for me personally, integer use matters far, far, far more than anything else.

Archit3ch 1 day ago||
> in FP64, which is not something most people use

It's used in audio processing. But large DAW sessions need something beefier than both tested devices (Macbook Neo, XPS).

MBCook 1 day ago||
It might be used a little bit in other places, wouldn’t surprise me one bit. And it’s good that the computers are capable of it. Even if someone can’t get a more powerful computer, it’s nice that they have the ability to use it for almost anything (within some limits) if they’re patient.

But as you said, if your workflow really needs FP64 you’re probably not reaching for a MacBook Neo or this Intel thing.

re-thc 1 day ago|||
> Comments like this one remind me of all the people saying "China can't invent things, they can only copy the US" 20 years ago.

We still get these comments. Now about AI. China can only distill and are still years behind. Well well...

oofbey 1 day ago|||
Really curious to see how ByteDance’s 10T model works out.
selectively 1 day ago|||
[dead]
throw-the-towel 1 day ago||
If Intel is competitive with Apple again, this should be good for the customer.
intrasight 1 day ago||
"competing" is not the same thing as "competitive". Apple is 1-2 years ahead. If they remain so indefinitely into the future then Intel is not competitive.
mortsnort 21 hours ago||
Except Intel can run Linux. A powerful enough laptop with M efficiency that can run Linux is compelling for many laptop buyers, especially the HN crowd.
intrasight 13 hours ago||
True. I was referring only to the silicon. Apple's OS totally sucks.

I can envision a day when Apple properly supports Linux. I cannot envision a day when their OS doesn't suck.

WithinReason 1 day ago||
If you normalise for both process node and clock speed, AMD and Apple are tied on single threaded perf/watt, and AMD Zen 5c cores have about a 12% perf/area advantage.
aurareturn 1 day ago|
Absolutely not true.

Apple leads in IPC, perf/area in CPU, and raw performance. We already have TSMC N7, N5, N4 AMD vs Apple CPUs to compare.

WithinReason 1 day ago|||
I wasn't talking about any of those
podocarp 1 day ago||
Please clarify?
WithinReason 23 hours ago||
never mind, I messed up the math
amelius 1 day ago|
Whoever used the most recent TSMC node will have the best specs.

My guess is that even the designs of the transistors and perhaps logic gates are IP blocks owned by TSMC and not whoever wants to get their chip fabricated.

aurareturn 1 day ago|
This isn't true because Apple's N5 CPUs are faster and more efficient than Intel's TSMC N3 CPUs (Lunar Lake).
amelius 1 day ago||
I suppose in that case Intel tried to make its own transistors.