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Posted by yu3zhou4 11 hours ago

The Hacker's Renaissance (2025)(phrack.org)
109 points | 78 commentspage 3
TacticalCoder 8 hours ago|
Everything we love about human creativity is being destroyed by AI models and when some of us point it out, we're getting downvoted by an army of AI kool-aid drinkers. It's plain insane.

You downvoters really cannot see what's wrong with a Phrack article written in an insufferable LLMish tone that reads just like a 2026 LinkedIn feed?

You are lost.

detourdog 8 hours ago|
Human creativity only dies with the entirety of the human race. As bleak as things may look the simplest thing to do is just not use AI if it bothers you. Focus all your efforts on some great tech based on risc-v. If one does that it would develop an amazing skill set.

I work with tech and the phase of my current development doesn’t leverage AI.

Once I know exactly my needs I will likely start to adopt AI to fill in the details of my plan.

anthk 9 hours ago||
>Yet, somewhere the spirit persists. Hidden away in encrypted Matrix rooms, deep inside dead drop Git repositories and onion forums, the real work continues. The underground never died — it just moved to quieter places.

You wish. True hackers wrote HAKMEM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAKMEM, wrote ZMachine interpreters in PostScript, wrote compilers for the Subleq machine with memory indirection and ran GNU/Linux on it. You pale against Lisp hackers who almost ate Discrete Math books for breakfast.

The PC "hacking" was nothing more than a bunch of kids playing with really underopowered toys.

There's more hacking spirit in Fabrice Bellard and Common Lisp/Scheme books than the whole PC hacking/cracking and phreakign scene.

This is a genuine hacking act:

https://bellard.org/dvbt/

This too:

http://www.erikyyy.de/tempest/

The same with Emacs hackers repurposing the editor for anything. IRC, Email, ZMachine interpreter, music and video player interfaces, web browsers, equation solvers, controlling aiports in Germany as an ATC messaging router (and I am NOT kidding about the last one)...

This might be the craziest achievement from a GNU product ever. Repurpossing a text editor to manage a civil infraestructure:

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsStories

kstrauser 6 hours ago|
That’s a pretty sweet gate! How long you been keeping it?
stackghost 9 hours ago|
[flagged]
adiabatichottub 9 hours ago||
> The "hacker spirit" doesn't require being a Luddite

Just to be pedantic, the Luddites weren't anti-technology, they were fighting against a means of production that they could never hope to own and which was ruining their livelihoods.

stackghost 8 hours ago|||
Why engage with the substance of my comment when you can be pedantic am I right?
adiabatichottub 8 hours ago|||
I'd accept that challenge, but I can't now because it's been edited out. For what it's worth, I remember somewhat agreeing with it.
ares623 8 hours ago|||
I love that Luddism(?) is coming back into mainstream discussion. Growing up I had the pop culture understanding of what a Luddite is. Wasn't until the last few months that I really understood, thanks in part to comments like this.
cassianoleal 9 hours ago|||
> doesn't require being a Luddite and rejecting LLMs merely because they're new and corporate.

I'd say the opposite is true. Taking that new and corporate thing and making it into something that works for you as a tool for hacking is exactly what the hacker spirit is about.

> I run an "abliterated"/uncensored local model on a spare PC downstairs.

Exactly like that.

TacticalCoder 8 hours ago|||
> LLMs are here to stay. The "hacker spirit" doesn't require being a Luddite and rejecting LLMs ...

You've got it all wrong. I pay three AI subscriptions and I use LLMs every day, for various tasks.

I know models are here to stay (not just LLM ones). At least 12 computers at home (well counting the Pis and NUCs as computers) and at all times at least half of those turned on. And more VMs than that (and agents running into those VMs).

I'm all but a luddite but this doesn't mean I don't find itprofoundly lame when such a venerable institution as Phrack can't even bother to write one page of text without using a LLM.

Also they use a monospaced font and there's ONE fucking non-ASCII character in the entire prose that appears several times: the em-dash from LLMish.

Now I wrote (and typeset) books: I can tell you about various types of dashes and spacing characters (in both english and french). I'm not saying we shouldn't be using em-dashes. But when you use a monospace font to look old-school cool using ASCII art, then maybe you could have removed that one LLMish artefact and use, I dunno, two minus signs like in the good old days?

They didn't even bother to replaced these em-dashes.

Here's what Gemini (on purpose) has to say about the text:

There is exactly 1 unique non-ASCII character in the provided text (see what I'm doing here? I'm using a LLM):

The Em Dash (—): Used throughout the text (e.g., "2025 — 40 years", "Dead—Long Live", "criminals." — The").

All other characters—including the quotes (", '), ellipsis (...), and formatting symbols (|, =, -)—are standard ASCII characters."

Why, just why? Why are ellipsis ASCII ... ? Did they replace the Unicode ellipsis codepoint with three ASCII dots? They forgot to replace the em-dash?

stackghost 8 hours ago||
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

>Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting.

I can't think of any comment less interesting and more tangential these days than yet another screed about LLMs using em dashes or particular speech patterns. Seriously who fucking cares

detourdog 8 hours ago|||
The other thing is who really knows if it was human or LLM. I think I have been accused of writing like an LLM.
annzabelle 8 hours ago||
With em dashes in particular, a human would have to go to explicit effort to use a non-ascii character. I like a good em-dash myself, but I just use a hyphen because I'm not going to go to the effort of using a character that's not on my keyboard in a blog post or comment. Using em dashes, especially in an otherwise monospace retro-computing theme, is a sure sign of llm output.
kstrauser 7 hours ago|||
I have a keyboard macro set up so typing “—-<space>” yields “—”. I set this up like a decade ago and it’s just habit now.
detourdog 6 hours ago|||
That evidence is laughable.

I learned about em-dashes from one of clients who used them. She used Microsoft Word it took a chord key sequence but was in her skill set. I think it was shift-option hyphen.

I think using em-dashes to detect LLMs reveals the divide between computer science and liberal arts.

malfist 8 hours ago|||
This is hardly a tangential annoyance to be annoyed by low effort slop.
noman-land 9 hours ago||
Would love some abliterated model suggestions.
maxrev17 9 hours ago|||
Plus 1
stackghost 8 hours ago|||
Honestly just go on huggingface and try one that'll fit into your vram.