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Posted by Markoff 5 hours ago

uBlock Origin Is Giving Up the Fight to Keep Ads Off Facebook(digitalescapetools.com)
125 points | 97 comments
wkjagt 1 hour ago|
I know this is probably a very naive question, but what is the end goal putting so much effort into getting past ad blockers? Surely, someone with an ad blocker installed is not going to click on their ads and buy the advertised products anyway. I don't really know what I am talking about, but I guess it's all about ad impressions that generate money, but doesn't this strategy end up making less money, because the money that's put into circumventing ad blockers isn't really generating more sales.

It's like a door to door sales person thinking that if only they could find a way to unlock my door I would buy their stuff.

sicktriple 50 minutes ago||
You don't actually need to click on an ad or purchase something from an ad site in order for Facebook to make money selling ad space.

The moment these ads are loaded on the page, real time auction occurs, where advertisers place bids algorithmically and automatically, based on your profile. Facebook makes it's money by selling this ad space. It doesn't particularly care whether you click on them or not. But if they don't load in the first place, there's nothing for Facebook to sell.

The real insideous part is that advertisers don't need to actually bid on the auction to participate, and anyone participating gets to havest your ad profile. This is one of the big ways data brokers are able to build profiles on you. They can then do whatever they want with this info, and you'd probably never know.

dewey 14 minutes ago|||
That's not true. If your ad placements don't perform, people are not going to book them. If ads are loaded or not is also often verified by independent third party trackers that you have to embed on your page next to the ad. There's whole industries built on this stuff and it's not as simple as "we sell the slot and don't care if people see it or click on it".
jpleger 6 minutes ago||
I mean you are both right, it's been a few years since I have been in adtech, and it isn't black and white. There are few places that will pay for stuff that isn't clicked through, but there are places that are willing to pay on an impression basis for things like video or images. It's just like not worth it to most places to throw those ads on their property since it's fairly low quality advertisers.

More to the point though, if there isn't ads rendered, you can't even get accidental clicks.

tristor 29 minutes ago||||
This is correct, and the extra insidious part is that folks who are tech-savvy and privacy-conscious are more valuable profiles than normies, because we generally work in higher income jobs/industries. So whether we click or not is irrelevant, Facebook gets paid more for showing us ads than they do for typical normies.
globalnode 28 minutes ago|||
and thats why you lock down your privacy, so they get nothing other than "generic privacy enthusiast #1000101010101"
gh02t 3 minutes ago||
Good luck. I'd wager that most methods to protect your privacy aren't nearly as effective as we think they are. While I don't think it means that you shouldn't try to protect your information, I typically assume that anything short of very extreme measures is only mildly effective.
thewebguyd 56 minutes ago|||
Online advertising is less and less about forcing a pitch to conversion in the moment its viewed. Even if someone with an ad blocker would never click on the ad anyway, repeat "impressions" build implicit trust just through exposure. Six months or even a year from then, when that user is looking for a specific SaaS tool, for example, the brand they saw 40 times already is the one that feels established and safe, and it's more likely to lead to a conversion without ever clicking the original ad.

The second part of putting so much effort into getting past ad blockers is tracking & fingerprinting, especially across devices.

In general, ads work by anchoring a brand name in your memory for when you eventually are looking for said product or service, the goal isn't always to force a conversion on the spot.

Lammy 1 hour ago|||
Ads are for surveillance as much if not more than they are for money
criddell 1 hour ago|||
Presumable the ads on Facebook are served by Facebook and they know who you are and what you are doing on Facebook.
darig 1 hour ago||
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axus 46 minutes ago|||
I believe that, as long as you add that the surveillance is also for money.
dfee 39 minutes ago||
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sodapopcan 41 minutes ago|||
I don't like ads and don't want to buy random stuff, but they totally work me sometimes, and I'm sure there has got to be many like me. It's one of the big reasons I don't go on social media really anymore. I mostly have willpower, but in moments of weakness I'll see a perfectly targeted ad, it'll be for something affordable, and I'll but it. It was never a big problem for me as it's only happened a handful of times, but everything I've bought this way has been useless and I've gotten rid of it all.
SvenL 1 hour ago|||
Aren’t ads payed also via „impressions“, like 10k people saw your advertisement so please pay x money?
teshaq 1 hour ago|||
Yes, but if a user doesn’t convert the advertiser will see worse performance metrics as cost per click/conversion/install is higher. That isn’t a good long term outcome for the platform, since advertisers can switch their budgets elsewhere (to Google/Youtube)

There’s a delicate balance, more impressions isn’t always a good outcome. Id assume here given the battle against ad blockers that the platforms do believe the aggregate impression mix leads to good performance for advertisers though

seattle_spring 1 hour ago|||
Partially, yes. Ads are also psychological, and tracked cross-platform. If you see a BMW ad on Facebook, drive by a BMW billboard on the highway, search BMW on Google, and then go buy a BMW, they have ways of fractionally allocating the conversion to the different impressions. It's pretty crazy.
creatonez 51 minutes ago|||
> is not going to click on their ads and buy the advertised products anyway

Even cringy ads that digust or anger users in the moment have a subtle effect of making them more likely to buy or recommend that brand in the future. The name recognition is what advertisers are buying, it doesn't have to immediately persuade the user to click for them to get what they want.

hn_submit 1 hour ago|||
I believe tracking and privacy invasions cannot be solved through technological means, it needs to be solved through laws and regulations.

We need to prod our representatives to ban the selling of our private information. Websites themselves can use the information but they're prohibited from selling it to anyone else. Why? Because the data changes hands and borders several times after which we lose all control over it.

nemomarx 56 minutes ago|||
Do we no longer habitually install an ad block for friends and family? There's gotta be some naive users with an ad blocker that way, or default within brave or whatever
thrownaway561 36 minutes ago|||
ads are like billboards. the company doesn't make money by making sure your buy the product, it make money by getting the product in front of you. You might not buy the product today, but there is a chance that since you've seen the product, you might buy it in the future.

many of times, i have looked to purchase a product or service and remember an ad that i saw that has alter my decision.

kakacik 1 hour ago||
I go a bit further - if something penetrates firefox + ublock origin combo, I'll go out of my way to make sure I'll never, ever buy such product or service if I can avoid that (not always possible but reasonably frequent).

Its quichotesque effort but the only thing that can move the needle a bit since everybody involved cares only about money here - waiting for some toothless legislation is useless when harm is happening now.

hn_submit 1 hour ago||
The only way to keep ads off Facebook is to stop using Facebook.
sodapopcan 38 minutes ago||
I got a facebook account because I wanted to use marketplace. I just use one of those CSS browser plugins to hide the newsfeed which is where all the ads pop up. The following does the trick for me:

    [role=main] {
      display: none;
    }
I also don't have any friends on it.
hatsunearu 17 minutes ago||
Marketplace has video ads that play with sound as you scroll by now. It's incredible
sodapopcan 13 minutes ago||
Ah, well I guess I'll be seeing those soon then? I don't use Marketplace too much (and just got burned recently so I've soured on it).
Markoff 7 minutes ago|||
you could use NoBook or MaterialBook, both on Github, personally I don't have FB account 10+ years and not missing it (besides marketplace, though don't see even there better deals than local classifieds website)
CivBase 1 hour ago||
If you're still using Facebook, it's because you're required to or you're the kind of person who won't be fazed by this.
celestialcheese 17 minutes ago|||
Marketplace. It's horrible, but the area I live in has mostly abandoned craigslist and if you want to buy/sell used stuff, marketplace is where you have to be.
corndoge 50 minutes ago|||
Correct, for better or worse facebook is the meeting ground for many communities and if you are in those communities you have to use it.
usui 31 minutes ago||
How long until someone invents a fully-integrated local video and audio adblock filter running on a passthrough VR headset or smart glasses? The progress on this front is taking a while. I wouldn't mind if the audio filter is white noise and a portion of what I see is blurred out. Maybe to make it more efficient, only scan near the places I'm looking at via foveated rendering.
throwuxiytayq 22 minutes ago|
How about we just get on with it and delegalize ads already? They’re a net negative in every form, subsidizing disgusting companies that shouldn’t exist, infringing on everyone’s privacy (including your children! think of the children!!!!!), and making us jump through all kinds of ridiculous hoops to minimize our exposure to them. I don’t think the solution is more hoops.
usui 2 minutes ago||
I don't think ads should be illegal because companies have a right to try to send me information or inform me of their products, but I also have a right to block them. The problem is that client-side computing seems to be lagging behind. Criminalizing information flow seems like a non-trivial problem that I don't want governments to be in control of.
qbane 2 hours ago||
I wrote and shared uBlock Origin filters for Facebook, shared on Reddit and up to a week later they changed the DOM structure bypassed the filters. After some attempts I no longer publish the filters.
hatsunearu 16 minutes ago||
Could you publish it with a license saying it shall not be used by any Facebook employee or something?
amelius 2 hours ago||
Maybe a better approach is to convert the page to an image, run OCR over it, use an LLM to remove the ads, present the result to the user.
ImJamal 2 hours ago||
How would you comment or watch a video if you did that?
ceejayoz 24 minutes ago|||
That sounds like an upside.
amelius 1 hour ago|||
You can still do that.

The only thing I'm proposing is to do the filtering on graphical data (what the user actually sees) rather than on the DOM (which can be obfuscated; and which may change every week).

dudhsudhd 52 minutes ago|||
I don’t see how presenting an image would allow you to interact with the page, especially if all you are doing is modify the image you’re presenting, not the page itself.
ImJamal 30 minutes ago|||
Are you saying you would get the image, detect the ad in the image, then regenerate the HTML without the ad based on where it was located in the image?
lokar 26 minutes ago||
You don’t need to regenerate, insert a DOM element to obscure it.
nemomarx 2 hours ago||
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49271126

More discussion here

Markoff 6 minutes ago||
well this post was like one hour earlier, they should have merged it earlier when there were zero posts in both
WalterGR 2 hours ago||
With 104 comments at the moment, that’s where the bulk of the discussion is happening.
SubiculumCode 47 minutes ago||
This does seem like an area where AI could help respond to changes quickly.
JamesSwift 24 minutes ago||
I was wondering why I suddenly started seeing these in my feed, I figured I would have to write my own extension to fix it.

Oh well, I cant be mad at the uBO team. Much appreciation for all they have given me over the years

la_fayette 2 hours ago||
ok thanking the team for this work over the years. i hope yt will stay ad-free :-)
Cider9986 2 hours ago||
Here's the source:

https://reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1vgcjg5

https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1vgcjg5/

Archived comments / VPN: https://photon-reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1vgcjg5/

dzonga 2 hours ago|
the tragedy is 'mainstreet' runs on Facebook.

not shitter, google but fb. some local business don't even have their own sites but maintain an insta / fb page.

jm4 30 minutes ago||
100%. Personally, I hate Meta and I don't use their apps. There's so much bullshit and fake news on there it's not even funny. But my business uses FB and Insta because they deliver results.

I can get my content in front of tons of people for a pittance. I can upload a list of my best customers and run a lookalike campaign. I can run a re-targeting campaign on lapsed regulars. I can spend $16 to generate $1000. It's like fishing with dynamite.

Think about the type of person who uses FB. They don't care about ads. They don't care that it's fake content. They don't care that at least half the feed is AI slop. They just keep scrolling, clicking and buying.

Meta didn't create these people. They only got them all to gather in one place and then started selling access. There's a sucker born every minute and they grow up and join FB. This isn't a defense of Meta by any means. They are a horrible company and the world would be better off if business models like theirs were outlawed. The point is nothing is going to change with them unless there's legislative action.

zamadatix 2 hours ago|||
Shitter? Edit: Ah, I assume you're referring to X (previously Twitter -> shitter taunt)
Finnucane 1 hour ago||
Xitter.
kotaKat 1 hour ago|||
the ONLY way my county communicates emergency alerts is facebook. it's absolutely wild. how do I know if I'm in a state of emergency? facebook. :)
MrDrMcCoy 1 hour ago||
Your country has sold your safety to private interests. Demand better from them.
ravetcofx 2 hours ago||
It's where the GenX-ers and boomers are at who have money to spend
SV_BubbleTime 1 hour ago|||
I love how Facebook has one reputation, an Instagram has another and they often don’t match at all even though we all know it’s the exact fucking service with a different skin and theme.
makerofthings 1 hour ago|||
What's with this current trend of grouping GenX with Boomers? I am GenX and the difference between us and Boomers is wild. My GenX friends are on here. Boomers I know are afraid of self-checkout machines.
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