Top
Best
New

Posted by CharlesW 4 days ago

Supersonic Trebuchet [video](www.youtube.com)
132 points | 54 comments
roomey 1 hour ago|
Thinking this approach out, could someone correct me if I have this wrong.

So he gradually increases the energy transfer from the weight to the arm over the course of the drop. But that arm swinging around must have a lot of energy loss due to friction and air resistance.

This loss will rise exponentially with the speed increase right? So in a sense he is holding his energy budget in a very inefficient phase, with high losses.

Two things support this. A) he spent a lot of time trying to make the arm more arodynamic. B) The spool widening at the end, which is essentially changing back down gears, applying more torque, right at the end when you want speed.

An alternative would be to drop the weight, and let it fall unrestricted until it gets to it's highest speed (this would minimise friction and air resistance) and only at the end of its fall, transfer the energy into the arm.

In this case the arm would only need to rotate 180 degrees or whatever, and not waste energy rotating right?

And then, to take this a step further to make this work there would need to be some flexibility or elasticity in the system to take energy from the high speed falling weight to the arm.

And what you have ended up with is something that looks like.... A whip!

fooqux 1 hour ago||
If I'm picturing what you're explaining correctly, I think this would be difficult. Suddenly accelerating the arm from zero to hundreds of mph would put immense stress on the arm, not to mention whatever you're planning on using to transfer that energy (you kinda hand waved that bit).

I think your assessment is correct about the energy losses. I'm just not sure about the fix.

roomey 1 hour ago||
I think the fix is essentially a whip, that's what I meant by elasticity and flexibility.

If you want to accelerate a weight quickly in a single swipe, (simplified) gradually reducing the mass along the length of the whip imparts more kenetic energy at the end (the whip crack).

So the arm would no longer be rigid, although you can see in the OPs video it isn't actually fully rigid.

lovlar 18 minutes ago|||
The arm (or whip) would still have to accelerate from 0 to ~2000+ rpm on half a revolution even though its flexible. So there would still be enormous accelerations even though the whip eventually partly smoothens out the peak acceleration. it would be more like a collision which in turns introduces higher stresses (and probably vibrations too) to the system. Both requiring you to increase the strength + rigidity of the system and hence also increase weight on the arm. Which in turns increases inertia and the "collision" effect.

Not saying its impossible to create a successful system like that, in fact it sounds sort of a natural/organic design that potential could be closer to the optimal design, but it would be more difficult to accomplish and probably need more testing and design iterations. So I think OPs strategy is more simple and pragmatic in this case.

pbhjpbhj 15 minutes ago|||
Nothing above absolute zero is fully rigid.

You're going to transfer the energy quickly, you'll just break any "arm" that's light enough to accelerate with the energy available.

You could maybe use an 'already broken' arm (rope, like a whip) but then it's not a trebuchet.

pletnes 50 minutes ago||
Energy loss from air resistance typically is quadratic, not exponential, with regard to velocity. So it’s worth much less than you’re arguing. And the arm has to rotate from what I can understand, so the end rotational velocity - and hence, rotational energy - would be the same?
arlattimore 6 hours ago||
Tom Stanton has a raft of cool videos, I like the engineering iterations he often goes through to find a working prototype.
kreelman 5 hours ago|
Agree!

He has some great videos. I watched this one and was impressed at the calculations, the transparency and the celebration at the end when he reached supersonic speeds.

Mashimo 6 hours ago||
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49232110
grahar64 4 hours ago|
At least this is a direct link to the video and not blog spam
pino83 2 hours ago||
Or, in other words: There was some text to read and some pictures to look at. For topics in the range of "supersonic trebuchets", I'm absolutely okay with quickly reading some lines of text; dynamically deciding how quickly/thoroughly I read, what paragraphs to skip, etc. What I'll definitely NOT do: Watch a video clip about it.
grahar64 18 minutes ago||
So you won't support the creator, but support a person who summarizes the creator. You could have just pasted the link into Claude and asked for a summary of the blog post.
londons_explore 5 hours ago||
I suspect that with a little iterative modelling of the whole system with derivatives, efficiency could be bought from ~40% to ~80%, giving you an extra few hundred mph...
repeekad 4 hours ago|
I wonder if Claude has guardrails against hyper optimizing a trebuchet projectile into a proper bullet
ezst 4 hours ago|||
How would you even get Claude involved in that? This isn't your git repo that a language model can scrape for textual content.
MomsAVoxell 3 hours ago|||
Convert the model to OpenSCAD, put it in a repo, and off you go. OpenSCAD is very LLM-friendly.
ezst 3 hours ago||
A LLM may produce OpenSCAD compliant syntax, I don't doubt that, but how do you make it produce designs that fit engineering constraints? How do you even express those to a LLM? How do you validate those? How do you iterate upon them?

The domain of ML-driven design optimization isn't exactly new, is quite specific, and I would need convincing that Claude has anything to contribute to it.

MomsAVoxell 1 hour ago||
I’m pretty sure Claude has been trained on high school physics textbooks, yo. And if it hasn’t there are plenty of other models out there that have.

It’s not a problem of the ML model. It’s a problem of the human setting up the description of the problem in such a way that the model can operate. OpenSCAD gets a long way towards that target. Use it with a model thats been trained for the purpose - just the same way that ML has been used to produce optimal rocket engine nozzles and fuel transfer systems.

Not that difficult, really.

ezst 13 minutes ago||
Are you familiar with the problem space at all?

> Claude has been trained on high school physics textbooks, yo

The very fact that physics textbooks have little bearing in the real world is the whole damn reason why Mechanical Engineering exists as a separate discipline, yo

> It’s a problem of the human setting up the description of the problem in such a way that the model can operate.

It's a problem of defining the initial state (which is the trivial part that OpenSCAD may be a contributing element of), defining constraints and variables (what is allowed to be changed and not, for what can, in which ways, to what extent, i.e. what is the library of allowed material, fastening, machining, assembling techniques available to your very specific situation), defining evaluation and fitting criteria.

I see very little adequacy of general purpose LLMs in that

> the same way that ML has been used to produce optimal rocket engine nozzles and fuel transfer systems.

Which has nothing to do with "just use Claude, yo"

bonoboTP 3 hours ago|||
It could make simulations and read the CNC templates and the files for the 3D printed parts.
ezst 3 hours ago||
And then do what? Do you have any evidence that Claud would do anything relevant with those?
bonoboTP 2 hours ago||
It could come up with design adjustments and measure their impact in the simulation. But the sim2real gap may be too large.
voidUpdate 4 hours ago|||
I'm pretty sure the only reason the video trebuchet wasn't a proper bullet is because it's made out of plastic instead of a ball bearing. Aren't most handguns subsonic?
cubefox 26 minutes ago||
107 more comments here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49232110
foo42 3 hours ago||
Great video.

Other trebuchet fans who dream of building one some day may be interested in googling "walking trebuchet" for a surprisingly high complexity/results ratio.

kitd 1 hour ago||
Love it! But shouldn't that be "high results/complexity ratio"?
fragmede 44 minutes ago||
Depends on if the journey and not the destination is what's important to you. ;)
aa-jv 45 minutes ago||
Every time I see a strandbeest[1] on the beach somewhere, I wonder to myself why it hasn't got an array of trebuchet included, also recharged by the wind, to pick up sand balls and throw at people.

Just for the fun of it. Pure whimsy.

[1] - https://www.strandbeest.com/

londons_explore 4 hours ago||
Interesting that his spool goes bigger at the end...?

I would think you want it decreasing to near zero to extract all the kinetic energy from the mass, leaving the mass stationary as it hits the ground.

vanderZwan 4 hours ago|
I think the idea is that at the end the sling starts to unwind too, increasing the effective arm-length (that non-linearity is one of the reasons trebuchets are so efficient to begin with). As a result it's possible that decreasing the spool to near zero is like putting the gears of your car too high. Reducing the spool size ensures there's enough torque left to put more power into the final swing.
drtoboggan 4 hours ago||
Really wondering up to what point I can build a trebuchet in my backyard before the authorities start to complain
xdertz 2 hours ago||
There are three issues that arise

- structural: There are height and size limits on things you can build without a permit

- trespassing: flinging objects onto others people property is illegal

- endangerment: any activity that can endanger other people is illegal

All of these three depend on how rural you live I guess. So in a suburban neighborhood I would assume they get involved very quickly.

rwmj 2 hours ago||
Surely that depends on the side of your back yard?
aa-jv 44 minutes ago||
Maybe it depends more on the vicinity to others' back yards... ?
arielpetit 1 hour ago||
Interesting
manlymuppet 3 hours ago|
Fuckin love this guy
mywacaday 2 hours ago|
If you like Tom you will probably also enjoy https://youtube.com/@stuffmadehere
manlymuppet 2 hours ago||
I am familiar, and I love that guy too!
manlymuppet 2 hours ago||
Another guy to love:

https://youtube.com/@SteveMould

vintermann 1 hour ago||
I, too, enjoy competence porn YouTube.

But seriously, it's one of those things we had preciously little of before online video became a thing.