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Posted by karakoram 5 hours ago

GPS and the Lost Art of Getting Lost(www.newyorker.com)
59 points | 51 comments
ExoticPearTree 2 hours ago|
You can still get lost today if you want to.

When I go to a new city, I find a landmark than take the train/bus/subway towards it but not to it. I get off ~ 3-5 miles away from it, then I try to find on my own navigating the streets in the general direction of it. Yes, it takes a an hour or two to get there, but I get to see things at random which otherwise I would miss.

I have seen people with phones in their hands asking for directions and not knowing how to tell Google Maps where they want to go.

bee_rider 1 hour ago||
It’s interesting to think of the way experiences go away, in this context. You can get lost if you want nowadays, but it is pretty rare to get lost if you don’t want to.

Now you get lost because you intentionally didn’t check the map or because you intentionally didn’t ask for directions, and you have the fallback GPS. In the past, a well-planned trip included landmarks or other opportunities to recover from getting lost, and might not have gotten too far from the familiar. And you got lost in a world where most gas stations had maps and asking for/giving directions was totally common.

IDK. Getting lost in the past was 99% annoying anyway so I’m not going to write anything nostalgic about the lost magic of it, or whatever. It’s funny to think that it can’t really be replicated, though.

teodosin 1 hour ago||
Or even less structured, just taking the first random bus you come across and see where you end up.
zdragnar 4 hours ago||
Orienteering is a good skill to have. My wife and one of my best friends could both get lost trying to get out of a cardboard box.

With that said, in the days before GPS, I recall wandering off my planned route for a bit in a new to me city, crossed the wrong street, and ended up in the poorest neighborhood and gang controlled territory. Nothing came of it, other than a lesson learned to be a little more careful about planning potential deviations rather than impromptu ones.

Going into the donut store and having to pass money under bullet proof glass and getting the donut through a revolving bullet proof door was certainly an interesting experience, though not one I'd care to repeat.

ghaff 4 hours ago|
Pre-(consumer) GPS, I definitely got turned around even in cities I knew reasonably well that aren't on a grid system in parts. It can be bad enough today in some sections of busy cities where you need to constantly shift lanes etc. and be at least moderately aggressive but trying to drive with a map open on your lap at night could be a bit of a nightmare--and not especially safe. It probably took me years before I had a passable sense of the geography of Boston.
the_lucifer 2 hours ago|||
> Pre-(consumer) GPS, I definitely got turned around even in cities I knew reasonably well that aren't on a grid system in parts. It can be bad enough today in some sections of busy cities where you need to constantly shift lanes etc. and be at least moderately aggressive but trying to drive with a map open on your lap at night could be a bit of a nightmare--and not especially safe.

As I was reading your comment I was imagining how hard it would be to do in Boston where even using a GPS gives me borderline paranoia then I finished reading your comment.. Yeah that's not something I'd wish on my worst enemy.

ghaff 1 hour ago|||
I have a friend I sometimes take to the Longwood Medical Center area (which I'm not very familiar with). She's actually quite a careful conservative driver. But we go there and it's get in the left lane, now get in the right lane, don't leave so much space in front, follow where that car is going, etc. Cambridge I actually know pretty well but I try to avoid Boston.
reaperducer 1 hour ago|||
I was imagining how hard it would be to do in Boston

And yet people did it for 500 years.

Makes you wonder what millions of your predecessors could do that you can't.

pretzellogician 18 minutes ago|||
Not necessarily.

For example, landmark-based navigation is good in rural areas but not generally in cities (of today).

I believe there are studies on this, in fact.

ghaff 1 hour ago||||
Navigate and safely drive at the same time maybe? Which people were presumably not doing 500 years ago. When walking, you're in a lot better position to stop and get your bearings. You're probably also not walking as much to totally unfamiliar areas even if I did get myself a bit lost a few times when I was first in the area.
JoshTriplett 44 minutes ago|||
> Makes you wonder what millions of your predecessors could do that you can't.

Millions of your predecessors died in ways easily preventable today.

"Let others praise ancient times; I am glad I was born in these." - Ovid

tharkun__ 3 hours ago||||
"Most European cities" entered the room ;)
ghaff 2 hours ago||
Yeah, but I'm usually not driving around European cities so it's less of an issue.
reilly3000 3 hours ago|||
Flashbacks of driving around Los Angeles with a Thomas Guide and a new bride…
toinebeg 2 hours ago||
The "Derive"[1] app from french collective "Hérétique"[2] his really great to help you wander while still going on your way. I use it a lot when discovering a new city by foot...

[1] https://derive.today/

[2] https://heretique.fr/en

weinzierl 4 hours ago||
It's fascinating to see how reliant our world is on GPS services (GNSS more precisely, not only location, but especially time) and how we still get even more reliant every day while at the same time we can see how fragile all of this is in the conflict zones of the world.

Maybe there is room for a stalker like lost art in navigation in places where it all breaks down but I doubt it.

The future I see is more one of autonomous navigation systems. Ones that pick up locations cues wherever they are and build a local map that helps you or your vehicle to find your way.

charv 3 hours ago|
Can you describe what you mean by “stalker like lost art in navigation places”? This sounds cool!
weinzierl 3 hours ago||
In the 1979 Tarkovski film the "Stalker" is a person who knows the lost art of safely navigating a particularly dangerous area. People pay the Stalker to guide them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalker_(1979_film)

mlloyd 1 hour ago||
I'll be honest, I'm not sure why I should feel nostalgic about inconvenience. Getting lost is a major inconvenience, it creates anxiety, wastes time, and all around just sucks.

GPS greatly reduces all of those things at the expense of... I'm not sure what honestly. The article was short on that part - or at least, to me, the benefits felt like inconveniences reframed as excitement and entertainment. I'll pass on this and most of the 'I miss the good ol days when life was harder ' genre.

I don't miss the days of stopping at a gas station for directions. I don't miss taking the slower route because I didn't have traffic updates redirecting me. I don't miss inconvenience for its own sake.

To each their own, but I really don't get this inconvenience nostalgia period we find ourselves in.

gausswho 32 minutes ago||
If we are in a period of nostalgia for inconvenience, it may be because convenience, when taken to its contemporary priority, can lead to a swath of negative side effects. Loneliness, boredom, lack of motivation.

There's often not a direct causation, but the correlation is compelling to me. We used to have to talk to people, and/or struggle and learn to meet our objectives. When we can skip those steps and immediately arrive at our destinations, we can sometimes miss the journey.

aquafox 1 hour ago|||
I also dont miss the days without GPS bike computers, having to navigate route with printed out google maps sheets just to realize the resolution was not high enough for my route and I had to stop at every 3rd intersection to confirm I'm still on the right track.
ButlerianJihad 22 minutes ago||
Back in 2014, I returned to San Diego for a high school reunion. I did not yet have any mobile device, but my parents loaned me a car and their feature phone for my use while I was home.

Now a few of my friends arranged an informal meetup which I jokingly called “The Honors Reunion” and they chose a brew pub on Coronado Island. I know many San Diego neighborhoods like the back of my hand, but Coronado was a place where I only drove to the beach, not needing any map or navigation, because it is hard to miss the Pacific Ocean segment between a Naval Air Station and the Hotel Del.

Anyways, I asked Mapquest how to find this brew pub, and I made a printout. This should have sufficed: Coronado is really, really small.

But the pin on the map led me to a darkened, mostly residential side street. I parked, walked around, scratched my head, and concluded that the map was wrong.

So rather than try asking for directions or calling my parents, I am a man after all: I drove up and down every street, crisscrossing the business district, basically brute-forcing the map until I finally stumbled on the location itself.

My friends were all there, happy to see me again, and we had a great chat before the big reunion activities began.

Arriving back home, I managed to piece together what happened, and apparently I had just made an extra misclick on the map surface just as I printed it out, sending the pin into no-man's-land.

That is probably the last time I got thoroughly and accidentally lost.

IncreasePosts 1 hour ago||
You're losing out on the "inconvenient" getting lost experiences, which it appears you are focusing on, as well as the "serendipitous" getting lost experiences.

Sounds like you had a bunch of bad times getting lost in the past. Maybe you're just not particularly open to new experiences.

bluefirebrand 1 hour ago||
> as well as the "serendipitous" getting lost experiences

I'm glad other people have had such lovely "getting lost" experiences but I never have so I don't have any kind of good feelings for it. Getting lost has always been inconvenient for me

snorremd 1 hour ago||
One of my best experiences in Prague back around 2010 was when I had no Google Maps, tried navigating with a hotel pamphlet map, and promptly lost my way towards the student culture house I was trying to find.

Ended up asking some locals where I was, and amused they assured me I was way outside the map and had gone east instead of north. I did not want to backtrack so I asked if there was any nice places to get a beer nearby and they pointed me towards a beer garden. Those were some of the nicest Pilsner Urquells and Staropramens I had during my visit. No tourists to be seen, and good vibes all around.

Nowadays I mostly navigate with GPS and rarely just happen on random places like that. I guess we lose some of the discovery when you always know where you are going.

ghaff 1 hour ago|
I was hiking one time and did have a guidebook. Things didn't look quite right but I did convince myself I was on the right track. (This was pre-GPS.) Eventually I ended up in someone's backyard. Fortunately there was (obviously) a road there and I figured out I had gone the wrong direction from the trailhead. (I think it was the Appalachian Trail.)
BadBadJellyBean 1 hour ago||
I volunteer at the German Federal Agency for Technical Relief (THW) and we recently did some navigation training. We have to be prepared for a situation when we don't have access to GNSS. I recently moved to the place where I currently live and I don't have a car. Navigating someone to places you have never seen before by map was a really fun challenge.

I can proudly say that I have not lead us astray.

cozzyd 1 hour ago||
It's hilarious how many people avoid lower Wacker drive in Chicago because they're so dependent on gps.

I don't have a car so I don't drive often, but I can't stand gps directions when I do, constantly changing the route and micro optimizing. I just look at the map and try to remember it. (Admittedly, having a map in a car is useful, even if I don't like the directions).

A related atrophied skill is the inability for many people to find a place to stop for lunch on the route, since they only understand turn by then directions, not the map.

tptacek 16 minutes ago||
I make a point of driving on Lower Wacker because it's fun, but for someone who doesn't drive downtown a lot, it's both kind of confusing and also a bit nerve-wracking; I wouldn't ever expect, like, my mom to drive it.
bee_rider 1 hour ago||
That atrophied skill might be untrainable now that most map apps have some ability to search for food nearby and add a destination to the route.
wtmt 1 hour ago|
In India, using Google Maps is far better, but it does have a few instances of failures (some that have been disastrous). When lost, asking people for directions has its own failure modes, due to people sometimes describing directions verbally in one way but pointing in another (opposite) direction with their hands (this is an amusing observation in India). The people who use Apple Maps (maybe a handful of them in the country) are cursed to get lost. That service is so hopeless in finding places that it may list something in another country or state.
IncreasePosts 1 hour ago|
I had the experience in india of, I believe, asking for directions, and the person didn't want to lose face by saying "I don't know and can't help you", so they just sent me in a random direction
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