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Posted by ropbear 1 day ago

Anthropic's ‘watermark’ text adulteration in Claude is a perversion of writing(daringfireball.net)
755 points | 671 commentspage 12
andy99 1 day ago|
I don’t understand how this works for anything but prose. Is that the point? In any code or structured output, there just isn’t the flexibility, and depending on how the user requests the output be constrained there is even less (“answer only True or False”). So is it just chat responses? If I ask the API to tell me a story about Alice and Bob then it watermarks it, but when I ask it some implausibly constrained thing like write a story about Alice and Bob with each word starting in rotation with the letters alicebob, does it try to do so and hope there are roughly équiprobable tokens regularly?
smallerize 1 day ago||
Yes, and it says that in https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-text-watermark
andy99 1 day ago||
I should have read that, it’s actually quite reasonable and I don’t really understand the objections in TFA having read it.

> One of my fundamental problem with this is that no two synonyms carry the exact same meaning. “He leaped at the chance” and “He jumped at the opportunity” are very similar sentences expressing the same general sentiment, but they are not the same. The exact words we choose when writing matter.

Doesn’t make sense at all in light of the actual approach, they’re just choosing a different RNG. It’s not like they’re corrupting it by flipping words.

Should add I don’t support the watermarking and requiring it is idiotic.

krackers 1 day ago|||
I don't understand Gruber's points either, I wonder if there is some fundamental technical misunderstanding. Does he think that the logits should be sampled from in a "pure" manner without introducing any other bias? Does he know that there's already a sampling temperature, and that most providers have probably moved on to sampling strategies other than top-k? Does he know that the word choices have already been altered irreversibly during RLHF which is how you get the obvious Claudism like "load bearing" and "seams"?

Perhaps it would be useful to publish examples of samples with/without watermark. I'd suspect that the variability from simply sampling repeated times would dwarf any semantic differences you'd detect with the watermark.

troupo 14 hours ago||
> I don't understand Gruber's points either,

Gruber's point is to bash the EU. He couldn't care much about anything else.

smallerize 1 day ago|||
I think Anthropic should have put all the info into one blog post. Splitting it up is really confusing people.
Cakez0r 15 hours ago|||
This could be why claude code has recently started to write reams of inane comments alongside the code it generates.
chrisjj 1 day ago||
> In any code or structured output, there just isn’t the flexibility

Variable name perversion incoming...

1vuio0pswjnm7 5 hours ago||
"My writing is my work, and Anthropic's current strategy is aggressively writer-hostile."
renecito 7 hours ago||
They just want to prevent their own slop being fed back into their AIs.

I think this would be a good guard on websites to use it as another content protection layer.

herf 1 day ago||
Not telling someone you used AI is a perversion of writing. Also agree that an AI proofreader should not claim authorship, but in most other cases, the AI is not reading your mind, it's only watermarking its own usage, and we kind of need more of that.
mrtesthah 7 hours ago||
Claude is already a perversion of writing.
4d4m 1 day ago||
Reminder: your favorite distilled model does not treat you, the customer, as an adversary and mess with your output.... May the free market win.
cratermoon 8 hours ago||
He's complaining that a coin-flipping synthetic text extruder is using an unfair coin. The text generated by an LLM is already adulterated. His objections are so much titling at windmills.
asmnzxklopqw 7 hours ago||
Awwww, little blogger can’t write his slop anymore without rest of the world knowing that he’s not the author?
fluxem 9 hours ago||
Why does everyone love AI and is impressed by AI quality but when the time comes to admitting that they use the magical AI, no one wants the watermark?
sleepybrett 9 hours ago|
How does this work for code?
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