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Posted by jacquesm 11 hours ago

On A.I. regulation and messaging(twitter.com)
https://xcancel.com/DarioAmodei/status/2088758816376807762
110 points | 194 commentspage 2
seydor 3 hours ago|
Is this cure of cancer in the room with us?
danqqqq 2 hours ago|
[dead]
axegon_ 5 hours ago||
Called it! He was bound to squeal after the release of QWEN 3.8 in one way or another and here it is. I wasn't even a teenager but I'm getting so much Jobs/Ballmer flashbacks with internet explorer and microsoft office.

Edit: Does anyone else notice the switching between dashes and em-dashes between paragraphs? Tells you a lot about the man, doesn't it.

zxexz 4 hours ago||
> Edit: Does anyone else notice the switching between dashes and em-dashes between paragraphs? Tells you a lot about the man, doesn't it.

That he doesn’t know how to use basic word processing, or even agent SKILLS.md or whatever it’s called now. Or maybe it’s just the next generation of vagueposting.

kilroy123 1 hour ago|||
Putting on my tin-foil hat here. I suspect we'll see major RAM shortages well into the 2030s to stop the commoners from having enough RAM to run powerful local models.
onion2k 4 hours ago|||
Tells you a lot about the man, doesn't it.

The CEO of Anthropic not using AI extensively would be news.

jacquesm 1 hour ago|||
And open source in general. Also: keep in mind that without open source to feed it there would have been no agentic coding.
raldi 3 hours ago||
I don’t understand your edit; can you quote an example switch?
isoprophlex 5 hours ago||

    > "I know that there’s a sort of Silicon Valley shorthand where regulation = regulatory capture = concentration of power, but I’ve always found this to be an overly simplified picture of the world."
    > wall of text follows
    > doesnt proceed to clearly tell us what the actual picture of the world is, then
am i correct in summarizing that the line of reasoning is

- frontier llm access means you are at an economic advantage

- a big risk of this is ongoing wealth concentration

- the "open weights" approach can't solve the problem of wealth and llm access being linked; you need compute too, and compute is expensive, thus "open weights" still favors the wealthy

- instead we need "objective and fair institutional processes", as this will allow small labs cook up their stuff while frontier labs get regulated

why would i care about what these smaller players do, if economic advantage = frontier model access? also, the reasoning around "why bother with open weights because compute is expensive too" seems like the kind of logic a motivated 12 year old could work their way around in 30 seconds. things are not either/or dario, you said so yourself.

seems like a 400 word corpo misdirection essay. par for the course.

knollimar 4 hours ago|
He seems to be grasping for a point but not providing argument for what it is exactly. And certainly not support that is logically coherent
toasty228 3 hours ago||
The tech industry cooking up some new way to screw people over for 25 years

The tech execs waking up on a random monday:

> I think that ordinary people don’t trust companies, governments, or the tech industry and always suspect that we are cooking up some new way to screw them over.

No shit Dario, no shit...

Havoc 2 hours ago||
Yeah and we’re not even done with dealing with the societal consequences of social media and dopamine algorithm driven everything
knollimar 1 hour ago||
That sounds like a "dismissal attack" and we're giving you less now to combat it
coldtea 4 hours ago||
> I know that there’s a sort of Silicon Valley shorthand where regulation = regulatory capture = concentration of power, but I’ve always found this to be an overly simplified picture of the world.

To paraphrase Sinclair "It's difficult to make a man realize the issues with regulatory capture, if they're to be the benefactor of regulatory capture".

> A crude analogy is that the formal court system can sometimes feel stuffy and elitist, but it does a much better job of defending the rights of vulnerable individuals than the alternative, mob justice.

Not so sure. After all lack of the latter did help establish the current tech overlord rule.

meindnoch 2 hours ago|
> A crude analogy is that the formal court system can sometimes feel stuffy and elitist, but it does a much better job of defending the rights of vulnerable individuals than the alternative, mob justice.

Especially when said individuals are rich.

maeln 5 hours ago||
> This is why Anthropic has always made its policy proposals very carefully. We try very hard to make proposals that disadvantage (slow down) frontier AI companies while advantaging smaller competitors.

> ...

> completely exempt any company below a certain amount of revenue or model training costs from being covered at all

One could argue that "Frontier AI" company know they have nothing to fear from company with less than XM$ revenue, and so their support for this type of regulation is still a way to force regulatory capture. In any case, whatever regulation you support, it's a regulation that you didn't have to handle when you were growing, but that incumbent will have to deal with.

Whatever it is Dario's intention or not does not matter. Capitalism push to consolidation and the eventual regulation that will need to be applied to mitigate the externality from a new industry, will mean that their will only be a handful of "very big" winner. Same story since the beginning of the industrial era. Even if that's not what Dario personally want, it's in the best interest of the shareholders, which will force Anthropic to do everything it can to be one of the big one.

> Overall my view is that AI is structurally a technology that tends to concentrate power, for reasons that have nothing to do with regulation (more to do with the extreme implications of the scaling laws).

The same can be said about a lot of other industry (aviation, oil, chip manufacturing, ...). Every country / union big enough will finance their own champion to try to keep a foot in the industry even if they are not the best.

fabsalvadori 2 hours ago||
I see little conversation about AI powering robots' core and the fact that we are going to have like a billion robots by the end of this decade. Yes, sorry if trust is low.
doubtfuluser 1 hour ago||
> „… it will actually be possible to cure most human disease in ~5-10 years, as crazy as it may sound to ordinary people …“

Nothing beats the hubris of the Silicon Valley CEOs and self proclaimed “elite”. I’m missing people calling out “we are better than that”… NOT

onion2k 4 hours ago||
When people talk about Qwen 3.8 being on a par with Fable, they're really talking about Qwen 3.8 Max aka Qwen3.8-2.4T-A95B. That's a 2.4 trillion parameter Mixture of Experts model with 95B active parameters. You need about 400GB of RAM to run it. No one is running that locally.

The distillations of Qwen 3.8 down to a 27B model are good, but they're not on a par with frontier models.

When Dario talks about open weights not being a solution this is what he means - if you don't have 400GB of VRAM lying around the fact that there's an open model like Qwen3.8-2.4T-A95B doesn't really help much. If we're not regulating how models are available, or making sure access is open, then RAM prices will mean everything concentrates on a few very rich companies.

xscott 3 hours ago||
I don't really understand the argument you're making, but just to add a data point:

DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731 is 167 gigabytes from the developer and as a GGUF with no additional quantization. It limps along on my 192GB M2 Mac from several years ago [0]. This model tests better[1] than Claude Opus 4.6 released in February. That's six months ago - what will be available 6 months from now?

https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731/tr...

https://huggingface.co/unsloth/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-GGUF

So yeah, enthusiasts aren't going to run frontier models on their gaming machines, but a small office could easily justify the $30k - $100k cost to run something like this at high speed. The small company I worked for routinely spent that kind of money on Dec Alphas twenty five years ago, and that's not accounting for inflation adjustment.

And this is completely discounting the advances smaller models are making. You're right that Qwen 3.8 comes in different sizes. However, Qwen 3.8 27B and Qwen 3.6 27B do run on gaming cards, and they're better than the frontier models from twelve months ago.

I have no idea what will happen in the future, but I wouldn't base my guesses solely on the largest open weight models.

[0] Yes, it's unpleasantly slow (5-8 tok/sec)

[1] Yes, benchmarks should be taken with a lot of salt.

woadwarrior01 4 hours ago|||
> The distillations of Qwen 3.8 down to a 27B model are good, but they're not on a par with frontier models.

Does it have to be? There are plenty of coding tasks, where it's good enough.

onion2k 4 hours ago|||
Practically, no, the distill is great. It's fine to use it.

However, if you're having a discussion about access to frontier models, and using Qwen 3.8 as an example of how open weights is a solution, then you should be honest and accurate about what you're talking about. Making an argument like "People can run Qwen 3.8 at home. That shows open weights are great." is a bit disingenuous if you're not also making it clear that you're not talking about Qwen 3.8 Max (or that you have a beast of a PC at home :D ).

woadwarrior01 4 hours ago||
I agree 100%. IMO, it all started with ollama misrepresenting the Deepseek R1 distills as Deepseek R1, all for hype and marketing. I've had so many ostensibly technical people telling me: "I tried DeepSeek R1 and it was terrible", and every time when I probe further they'd tried the tiny 1.5B Qwen2.5 distill model that was further brain damaged by ollama's naive RTN quantization[1]. DeepSeek themselves were very forthright about it by naming it DeepSeek-R1-Distill-Qwen-1.5B[2].

I suppose the road to technical hell is paved with marketers and grifters. :)

[1]: https://ollama.com/library/deepseek-r1:1.5b [2]: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1-Distill-Qwen-...

Pavilion2095 3 hours ago|||
> coding tasks

Exactly. There are common coding tasks that these models can adequately do. They are absolute trash for anything that isn't coding. And even with coding, they are so, so far behind frontier models.

dgellow 4 hours ago||
No one is running that locally because of the AI bubble consuming all the hardware in the industry. That won’t be the case long term though
dude250711 5 hours ago|
So, what does a for-profit CEO, beholden to profit-seeking investors, have to say?
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