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Posted by dash2 2 days ago

AI boosted homework scores, then exam scores dropped: study(www.economist.com)
https://archive.is/w1eng

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6868618

198 points | 257 commentspage 4
OroPla 5 hours ago|
This feels like the calculator debate all over again.

Yes, using a calculator leads to worse outcomes in your learning. But also, yes, everyone always carries a calculator on their person 24/7 these days and you'll never be as fast and as accurate as a calculator.

I think it would have been kinda cool if you could have unlocked the privilege of using a calculator in school through good grades in math class. Prove you can do what the tool can, then you get to use it. Would have also provided at least one incentive for students to get good grades in at least one class.

graemep 5 hours ago||
> Yes, using a calculator leads to worse outcomes in your learning.

Does it? https://www.jstor.org/stable/749255

zadikian 5 hours ago||
You do sometimes get to unlock it by being allowed to use calculators in more advanced classes
a2ff6eeb0 7 hours ago|||
Yeah, obviously. We also don't know how to use flint and steel to start fires any more. You wouldn't outlift a crane, why would you want to outhomework an AI? And you can't even argue that this toil is going to help in the workplace, because the workplace is now AI-native, and you can offload everything to AI.
antonyt 7 hours ago||
These are students aged 12-18. Even if we ignore all the other negative externalities of AI and assume it will be ubiquitous and cheap, kids need repetition and exercises to make inferences and develop intuition.

Sure - you can ask AI to, for instance, calculate how much money you'll have given a fixed principal and a compounding interest rate. But we need to get a kid to the point where they even understand what the question to be answered is. If they're using AI all along the way, they are developing less understanding of what fractions and exponential growth are.

Will it stop the really smart and motivated kids? Of course not. But at population scale there will be big consequences.

jbstack 7 hours ago|||
The important thing is that I could learn to use a flint and steel pretty easily if I wanted to. I don't need to carry out that particular task, but my ability to adapt to new problems means I can carry out more relevant tasks when needed. The most useful part of school and university for me wasn't that I learned the difference between a cirrocumulus and a cirrostratus cloud in geography class. It's that I learned how to learn.

If we let children cheat their way through school and justify it by saying they don't really need to think for themselves anymore, then we're going to end up with a generation of adults who struggle to take on any difficult tasks at all. I suppose your counter-argument to that will be "but we can just hand over everything to the AI" but that's an essentially an argument that humans should be considered obsolete altogether. I sincerely hope that that's not a path we end up going down (although I'm genuinely scared that it is).

11eiej 7 hours ago||
It’s not ‘even the learned how to learn’.

It’s the exposure to feeling under pressure, creativity of the mind etc - the less you expose a human to ‘suffering’ the more useless they become.

keybored 7 hours ago|||
Why one would care? Look at your comment from two days ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49363319

> I hope we'll figure out some equitable society before that, but I'm not going to bet on it, so I'll do what I can to be on the side of the winners.

Obviously people care if they think they might lose out.

Is it going to be this hopes-and-prayers about egalitarianism/ah screw it I hope I get to oppress and dominate the majority? Or all of us sipping wine on the beach for eternity?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49366313

You gotta pick a lane with your rah-rah-ism.

add-sub-mul-div 7 hours ago|||
Sure. Let's not think too hard about what it means that general thinking and creativity are the skills we've stopped practicing this time. It will be fine.

(You may be making the same point as me or the opposite point, I can't tell what's sarcasm anymore. I try to make mine obvious.)

cyanydeez 7 hours ago||
you know we let social media companies cause massive harm over 2 decades; but clearly, this will be deifferent!
grahammccain 7 hours ago|||
Guess what this is probably fine. AI helps people do their work on a daily basis and probably makes them memorize less things. That’s how the world is moving. You don’t need to be able to memorize something for an exam to show mastery of a topic. And we shouldn’t organize our society around memorizing things for exams.
throwitaway222 7 hours ago||
What is a doctor? The person recommending next course of action based on best practices. What is the best practice? Is it a globally decided on thing, a locally tested thing that has proven to be better? Is the global thing just the most popular because someone wrote it on reddit and it got millions of views (but isn't actually good).

If our society is organized on just delegating all authority to "the best answer" we can drop all jobs - and only the surgeon has some authority over the machine. When we have a surgery robot, then they can go to. And at some point we'll be recommending and forcing surgery for athletes foot because some kind of best practice or viral post going out of control and a bunch of openclaw bots randomly decide to make tons of recommendations online for amputation for athletes foot and GPT 8.6 agrees this is the way to go.

OR we can somehow decide there is a boundary, there is some room for human memory and decisions.

rektomatic 7 hours ago|||
Good exams don't just test memorization
gampleman 7 hours ago|||
Memorizing stuff is good for understanding. Of course memorizing without understanding doesn't really help, which is what a lot of student last-minute "cramming" boils down to. But without concrete and memorized knowledge, any abstract reasoning skills become quickly impossible.
recursive 7 hours ago|||
One more step towards eliminating the value of labor entirely. What "work" will people be doing on a daily basis, and what makes it valuable?
dan_ggggg 7 hours ago||
Definitely not fine. People are graduating from Computer Science programs literally unable to write a line of code without AI assistance.

These people have fallen into OpenAI and Anthropic's trap and are illiterate without the assistance of coin-operated slop generators.

11eiej 7 hours ago||
Yup this is the devious plan.

Thank god for china!

mpalczewski 3 hours ago|
When you get out into the real world, what will matter is how effectively you use AI. When you are done with school, you can take the "exam" using AI. The problem is that teaching is trying to teach skills that are no longer relevant and is always behind what the latest going on in the industry. Every time without fail you got interns, who after two years at stanford would learn more in the 3 months on a google internship than in those two years at stanford. They learn useless shit.

My own experience is that college is fun. You can spend the time wisely, but school stuff, is not what makes you money.

Make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy and make colleges under write them. The problem will get solved quickly.

nick486 3 hours ago|
Way before AI, the problem was very similar - universities do not teach practically useful stuff. Its been a permanent complaint about the education system, really, at least for the last 50 years.

AI just gave the students a way to dodge the slog.

But university was never intended to teach the bleeding edge. That would really be impossible in practice. Pre-phd, it is supposed to teach ways to efficiently attack a problem. you can take a bunch of "play courses", and succeeding at any of those requires pretty much only that one skill.

Nowadays, the challenge they face, is to keep teaching "problem attack methods" in a way that can't be trivialized by AI.

Though fundamentally, if you go to university, and evade learning the one thing you can learn there - thats your loss.