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Posted by tyre 2 hours ago

I should have loved biology (2020)(jsomers.net)
128 points | 55 comments
noname123 1 hour ago|
This is a very romantic view of life sciences.

Speaking as a guy who made the pivot to research in life sciences (as a "data scientist") from "full stack software engineer", yes the data and mission is very sexy to a nerdy guy like myself, applying deep learning algorithms to spatial or epigenetic sequencing data of cancer cells to figure out the secret markers or mechanism of cancer cell mestasis or human immune response.

The realistic or unromantic view is you are a cog in the life science industrial complex where you are underpaid and under-appreciated; research often takes years and unclear if you are making progress or scamming the taxpayers like a humanities professor in women's studies (yes even STEM sometimes feels like that); and in computing, unlike tech, you are not the center of attention, most wet lab scientists treat you more like a resource, a grad student they need to make their pvalue or figure panel pop nicely versus a "full stack software engineer" - And if you don't like it, hundreds of thousands of post-doc's or grad students are waiting to take your place for their shot - not in pursing their passion but for a visa in America.

The real value I learned from my pivot from pivoting away from tech and pivoting into Biology is ironically how to gamble. I joined a Discord/Slack sub-channel for #options-trading, #sports-betting and #poker during my studies for a Masters in data science with other degenerate students who loved gambling, and how to identify, automate and size +EV plays in gambling or derivatives trading. I make more than 2-3x what I make in W-2 from my capital gains and W2-G than my W-2 for past the 6 years. But that is not put shade on biological sciences and rather giving credit to Biology for teaching me how to analyze data and gamble.

le-mark 37 minutes ago||
> The real value I learned from my pivot from pivoting away from tech and pivoting into Biology is ironically how to gamble

Lol that took a turn, I was expecting a link to a how to course at the end; or some nfl week one picks!

stanford_labrat 13 minutes ago|||
hilarious. i also made a pivot to life sciences from a hard math field and my experience was the exact same.

i make more money trading options and have way more fun! in a way - it is "real" science in a way whereas the modern Life Science Industrial Complex is anything but that.

mettamage 35 minutes ago|||
Where can I learn what you learn to make +EV plays? I did some poker back in the day, it was fun :)

One of my favorite books was The Mathematics of Poker

tux3 22 minutes ago||
You should buy my ebook on how to get rich quick by selling ebooks, it has excellent EV and guarantees returns that beats the market.
doctorpangloss 1 hour ago||
> or scamming the taxpayers like a humanities professor in women's studies (yes even STEM sometimes feels like that);

one thing's for sure, there are certain spaces for people who lack people skills, and that seems to be associated with "STEM" skills

__MatrixMan__ 1 hour ago|||
I suspect that the money taxpayers used to spend on humanities professors in women's studies is a pittance compared to the money they're now wasting because grab-em-by-the-***** regime never took one of those classes. Ignoring half of your population comes at the price of social unrest, which it turns out is very expensive.

This applies just as well to biology.

noname123 43 minutes ago||
My original point is to make a point that biology or academia in general is very romantic to outsiders - but it's not a very +EV play unless (1) you are already very independently wealth, or (2) you are really really into the subject and know what you're signing up for (the long odds, hours and politics). 99% of the people will take this as a pessimistic view and stop there but 1% will actually pursue option (2).

RE: your political point, I submit to you many institutions are very left-leaning and "Woke-1" was defeated by its emphasis on shaming tactics and identity politics - which ironically brought upon the identity politics of the right and the current "regimen's" backlash on defunding DEI initiatives, which hurts ironically the sciences most due to its outsized reliance from NIH/NSF/DARPA etc. And I welcome actually "Woke-2.0" where DSA is actually focused on kitchen table issues such as grocery and health insurance cost; and anticipate that our political pendulum will swing to the left at the next cycle.

noname123 1 hour ago|||
Yes for me, it's mutually beneficial and gives me a quick way to polarize, filter out people I don't want waste time associating with (and vice versa too - people who are institutionalist, professional managerial class (PMCs); thank you for making my point!)
vipshek 21 minutes ago||
This article is ostensibly about biology but it's really about pedagogy—how traditional education squeezes out the sense of discovery and turns many subjects into rote memorization exercises.

This reminds me of the pedagogical philosophy of Seymour Papert, who was heavily influenced by the ideas of Jean Piaget. Piaget's "genetic epistemology" argues that knowledge and understanding is created by interacting with environments, which traditional educational approaches fail to provide.

Papert combined Piaget's ideas with the emergence of computing to argue that children should be taught subjects in a hands-on, exploratory way - and not just for teaching computing! The idea is that by programming in simplified languages, children can discover ideas in subjects like mathematics and grammar - deriving them as they try to solve problems instead of having them dictated to them.

Suppose that biology was taught in a game-like environment where students were designing cells or organisms in some way. Maybe the game could be structured so that each organelle could be "discovered" by the student as they designed the cell to survive in some environment. Perhaps that'd make the purpose of each cell component more grounded and memorable.

Papert's book Mindstorms covers all this in detail, and I highly recommend reading it. I feel like it's especially important today given fears of how AI will affect childhood education. At best, I hope that computing can be a boon to education instead of a detriment if it's woven into pedagogy thoughtfully.

BeetleB 14 minutes ago|
Education serves two purposes: Understanding and developing skills for employment. Unfortunately, there usually isn't enough time to teach both for all subjects. The latter usually takes priority.

I saw this happen twice in my university life. I took the honors version of CHEM101. 80% of it was more about exploring and discovery, and 20% was more traditional problems, calculations, etc.

For people like me who were not chemistry majors, this was great. For the chemistry majors - they really struggled when they got into CHEM102.

The same happened with Quantum Mechanics I. The professor didn't want to teach all the bra-ket notation, and more or less skipped much of the linear algebra aspects of QM - focusing on a purely calculus approach. He then retired. The professor who taught QM II saw what the professor did, and said "WTF?!" He spent most of the semester reteaching QM I.

As a result, those like me who went on to grad school had to retake QM II at the new university to make up for all that wasn't taught to me.

ricardo81 7 minutes ago||
I did (and do albeit somewhat in a neglected way) love biology. As much as I admired pure science (maths / physics) there is a certain romantic-ness to the real world application of chemistry and the emergence of it I suppose at the most scientific PoV, but really just that it's so complex and we appreciate the emergence of it.

I wrote biology-online.org shortly after education and it's achieved a few thousand years worth of page views. wikipedia tends to cover all those informational queries nowadays and I've been programming for 20 years since.

It's so easy to forget that much of our inspiration comes from biology (and ecology of course) and its emergent behaviour. When I hear hype about anything I think about how it's taken 4 billion years for anyone to say it and you simply can't forget we're standing on the shoulders of giants.

teekert 1 hour ago||
I did always love biology, not because of my teachers, but because of my own wonder of it ("I sort of get how an engine works, but how do humans work?"). And I became a biologist, and thinking about the things this author describes indeed still blows my mind. I get the high level of a lot of things now, but every time I need to do a deep dive, I feel like "how the hell can this even work". But it works, and it works incredibly well. I still think it's the nicest field to be in (even though I love computers and Linux and FOSS as well).
ngriffiths 37 minutes ago|
Agreed, I loved my biology courses and lab work and had always had a similar sense of wonder about it all. It's interesting, I'm not sure that came from any teacher in particular and I bet there are plenty of people who just never feel it no matter how you teach the subject. That said, those are beautiful illustrations referenced in the article and they have a ton of teaching value, and I think a lot of core concepts that went over my head would have been way more accessible using tools like that.
ecshafer 11 minutes ago||
I like this blog and its a romantic view of Biology, and I agree with the sentiments. However I would say its a narrow view of large issue: Lack of Rigor and Depth in School. Biology doesn't get enough into the nuts and bolts, and instead focuses on regurgitation of facts, with not enough experimentation. Mathematics doesn't have enough of a focus on rigor, proofs and building models from first principles, just a formulaic approach of decomposing equations and fitting them into patterns to solve. History is a list of facts, with a little bit of essays connecting ideas, where you might say how the Leviathan affected Enlightenment thinking but you don't actually read the Leviathan, and learn how Napoleonic warfare changed things, but don't read primary evidence.

Just about every subject is interesting if you are able to take a really good hard look at it, and construct it from first principles.

srean 2 hours ago||
This is one of those perennial HN favorites

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=I%20should%20have%20loved%20bi...

tyre 26 minutes ago||
yes! I first found it on HN. The other front page piece on Thickness reminded me of it.

Always happy to pass along a good article to the next generation of Posters

srean 17 minutes ago||
Yes.

Every generation needs to rediscovery the old chestnuts. That's why I think old but good textbooks should stay available and new text books should cute them. That is how knowledge is retained over generations.

Some dislike new text books that rehash the same old material. I think it is necessary to do it even if there is nothing new to add other than new artwork and a contemporary typeface.

underdeserver 49 minutes ago||
Yep, and given that the original author posted it in 2020, should probably be marked (2020).
boricj 2 minutes ago||
Isn't biology the applied reverse-engineering of a billion years of DNA evolution, where the laziest solution that works wins, is all written in assembly, with tremendous amounts of dead code and hardly any refactorings?

I've already seen the horrors that lurk inside of poorly-written 90s video games. Hard pass.

janalsncm 1 hour ago||
Physics was like that as well, and from my limited experience chemistry too.

The history of physics and the theory of it is great. A Brief History of Time is an awesome read.

Studying physics is not like that. Studying formulas, applying them to situations, and of course very math heavy.

One thing I regret is the experiments as well. In physics and chemistry they were kind of a blur. Just following instructions and sometimes they didn’t work out and no one knew why. I never learned the most important thing: how to design an experiment. Following a long recipe then reading the result is much less useful than observing a thing, forming a testable, falsifiable hypothesis about that thing, and then testing it.

Last thing I’ll say is you probably aren’t going to get the “wonder” of science from a science class. Those classes are there to tell you the answers, but the most interesting part is discovering the answers yourself which is not possible in a one semester survey course.

BeetleB 6 minutes ago||
Compared to some other books on the same topic, A Brief History of Time is a poor book. It just happened to be the first popular book on the topic.

Fully agree with labs (not just science but engineering as well). 2 years into my grad program, I visited my undergrad campus and a professor asked for feedback on the education I received. I told him that all the labs need to be revamped. As taught, they were a waste of time. Virtually every lab I did went like this: "Design a circuit (e.g. amplifier) with the following characteristics. Then build it and confirm via measurements."

The challenging part was the design, which was all theoretical. It was then trivial to wire it up.

I recall one time I was given a project to build some circuit. I built it, but when the professor evaluated it, he saw the output was very fuzzy. He wanted to know if it was due to my circuit or whether the input was fuzzy. He did a bunch of interesting things on the oscilloscope to determine that it was indeed the input. Now that's the sort of stuff they should have taught us!

As for motivation for subjects like physics/other sciences. It's a challenge. As I said in a different comment, there often just isn't enough time to teach both. I think professors expect students to have some level of intrinsic motivation already. For something like physics, you really cannot reduce the math involved - most undergrad physics curricula have too little math as it is!

dividefuel 59 minutes ago|||
As a physics major I agree a lot with this.

Most of my courses were very "Point A" to "Point B". You're given a set of formulae, then a problem, then you use some combinations of those formulae to solve the problem. Most labs were the same way: you're given an exact script to follow without any explanation of the experiment design. It felt like both were optimized for easy instruction / grading and not for learning new skills or concepts.

Only two of the courses I took were substantially different. One was an upper division lab that actually was more open-ended, where we were given a goal and some equipment and had to figure out how to use the equipment to meet the goal. Another was a more conceptual course where we explored how to approach broad problems to come up with rough estimates for a wide variety of questions. Both were much more engaging, but I saw many students good at the typical course type struggle with how open ended these courses were.

Onavo 1 hour ago||
> One thing I regret is the experiments as well. In physics and chemistry they were kind of a blur.

Well, a lot of places would penalize you if your data is incorrect, so most of the focus ends up on execution rather than the why. If you were angling for a high GPA for whatever reason, you cannot afford to experiment too much during lab work. It's another case entirely of course if you are conducting research.

janalsncm 1 hour ago|||
Really a shame because understanding why your results were incorrect is much more important than stumbling on the right answer by accident.
n4r9 1 hour ago|||
> the focus ends up on execution rather than the why

Exactly right. School teaches you that the point of running an experiment is to try and get the same result as the teacher, while performing a ritual with steps called "hypothesis" and "method".

intrasight 2 hours ago||
I realized after getting a degree in engineering from CMU that I should've loved biology so I went back to school after working as a software engineer for a year and studied neurobiology. And since then, I've suggested that people early in their career should take a break and go back to school and study something totally different.
ajmurmann 2 hours ago||
In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance Robert M. Pirsig suggests something very similar. He makes the point that students should go and work a job before picking what to study because they'll see where the value comes from (he of course puts it in much better words)
foobarian 1 hour ago|||
I've heard this advice a lot with respect to graduate school/PhD work. And indeed, the students that came from industry jobs tended to be much more impressive; some of that was probably from the "real-world" experience, and some probably from a self-selection effect where folks who came in from a presumably well paying job had to have really wanted it and were therefore more motivated.
esafak 1 hour ago|||
That might be difficult given the job market now compared to Pirsig's time. Of course you could get menial job but that won't tell you much about the real job you want, just about what work is like in general.
59percentmore 1 hour ago||
With what money?
intrasight 51 minutes ago||
I went back to graduate school - where you get paid to be a student
saintaardvark 1 hour ago|
I had a similar experience with nature. My dad was the outdoors type, a conservation officer who loved hunting & fishing; I wanted nothing more than to be inside reading an encyclopedia. I have always liked science, but biology was just one subject among many.

When I became an adult, I gravitated to computers because there is so much to learn about them. My focus has been infrastructure, but I've picked up software development, assembly, kernel hacking, data science, and a dozen other things along the way (mostly at amateur levels, but I'm always happy to learn).

I have have other interests (economics, homebrewing, astronomy, sociology, making music), but in each of those cases I learned what I wanted to after a few years & moved away. When covid hit, I picked up natural history through iNaturalist -- and that has so far been very very different, much more the same kind of endless opportunity for discovery that computers felt like.

There is so much weirdness in biology. Parasitic wasps with genes that came from viruses that suppress caterpillar immune systems, male spiders that have appendages (pedipalps) that look like boxing gloves, the many kinds of bumble bees around me, introduced species, nests, microorganisms -- it's insane. It's higher up the stack than the stuff the author is describing, but no less wonderfully complex and fascinating.

The quote from Lewis Thomas really hit home for me: "People ought to be walking around all day, all through their waking hours calling to each other in endless wonderment, talking of nothing except that" [cell|insect|weird relationship|phenology|behaviour]. Kudos to the author for putting this all into words so well, and for adding a dozen books to my must-read list.

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