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Posted by floathub 10 hours ago

Felony charges for citizen deleting phone data at US Border(www.nytimes.com)
https://archive.ph/SflVC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2rokxux5cU

361 points | 458 commentspage 3
nphardon 2 hours ago|
He's lucky they didn't ship him right off to the Dilley Detention Center
steviehicks78 2 hours ago||
Obstruction to what? Also thought this would be covered by the fourth and fifth amendment.
marcosdumay 4 hours ago||
Goes to show that he should have made an LLM do it instead.
yapyap 55 minutes ago||
yikes
maxglute 5 hours ago||
What about none citizens? Customs kicks you out or throws you into a camp first.

E: but seriously, what happens to non citizens. What happens if you bring a burner/wiped phone? I assume digit forensics can confirm it was pre wiped but what's topping them from alleged you wiped on US soil.

bad_haircut72 4 hours ago||
That famous phrase from the constitution, "all men are created equal, except the ones not born in America"
azernik 3 hours ago|||
The original you're riffing on is from the Declaration of Independence (a purely rhetorical document), not the Constitution of a decade later.
twothreeone 3 hours ago||||
The implicit "men born outside the US are not men" is arguable worse.
marcusverus 1 hour ago|||
The constitution says it is written to "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity", actually.
thomasjeff1 4 hours ago||
So non-citizens should avoid visiting US. Got it
samizdis 5 minutes ago||
That has been the case for a long while. I used to travel a lot for work - Serbia, Czech Republic, Germany, Portugal, Australia, NZ, Qatar, Kuwait, Moldova - but the only unpleasantness I received at a border/intl airport was on landing in the US, twice; NY both times. Talk about rude and aggressive, for no reason at all. I'm from the UK, by the way.

My fondest border experience was many years ago when entering France; this was before the UK had joined the EU. (Our later exit was dumb, IMO.)

Anyhow, a youngish officer - probably mid-20s or so - examined my passport while asking questions, in perfect English. His voice was even and his demeanour calm and professional. Then he took a step back, closed my passport and put it in his pocket. A few seconds later, he started laughing and said: "The look on your face. Priceless. Welcome to Paris."

He really had me and I saluted him for that.

adfm 9 hours ago||
I don't know about you, but don't people use encryption to retain privacy? And are people still free to manage their personal information? Doesn't a duress PIN present that information in its intended form? I'm confused.
zug_zug 2 hours ago||
Well hopefully there’s a jury so this nonsense can get nullified
IncreasePosts 3 hours ago||
What I don't understand is if he just didn't give any password, he would have been fine. It's only because he gave him a duress pin that he's in trouble.

So, in both cases the government wouldn't have access to the contents of the phone

frollogaston 29 minutes ago||
They might have a way to gain access anyway. That was that case where the FBI got the locked iPhone 5C of a San Bernardino shooter suspect. Apple refused to unlock it, so the FBI paid a hacking firm to do it. If there's no known vuln to get into a phone today, I wonder if they'd hold onto it in hopes that one shows up later.
twothreeone 3 hours ago|||
In the first case they (the US govmnt) could hold him (the citizen) in contempt (in a cell) indefinitely.
RunSet 2 hours ago|||
18 months is, by precedent, the limit on contempt for refusal to decrypt[0], but this administration is happy to disregard any precedent that does not agree with them.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/man-who-refused-...

wffurr 3 hours ago|||
Actually no, they are required to allow you to enter the country, but they will make it a hassle, to the point of dehydrating you and/or refusing bathroom access, and confiscate the device in the end and access is through other technical means.
blkhp19 3 hours ago||
Is that allowed? Can you refuse to give a pin when asked?
sweetjuly 2 hours ago|||
It's complicated.

> Courts have generally found that compelling individuals to provide their numeric or alphanumeric passcode is potentially testimonial under the Fifth Amendment, as it forces the defendant to reveal “the contents of his own mind.” In Re Grand Jury Subpoena Duces Tecum 670 F.3d at 1345; see also U.S. v. Apple MacPro Computer, 851 F.3d 238 (3d Cir. 2017). It is analogous to compelling production of the combination to a wall safe, which is testimonial, as opposed to surrendering the key to a strongbox, which is not. See Doe v. U.S., 487 U.S. 201, 220 (1988). However, even if a court finds that providing the passcode is “testimonial,” it may still fall under the “foregone conclusion” exception

https://www.nacdl.org/Content/Compelled-Decryption-Primer

In short, you can't be compelled to give up the code in a dragnet attempt to find evidence against you (e.g. a boarder guard can't riffle through your text messages to see if you might have done something illegal), but if it's already certain that particular evidence exists on the device as a result of other evidence, they may be able to compel you to give up your passcode.

Note though that the cases where this has come up are very few and far between, and there isn't a super clear overriding precedent to follow.

In general though, the best choice here is to say nothing at all and work with a lawyer to figure out how to proceed.

carefulfungi 3 hours ago|||
https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...
righthand 2 hours ago|
What about everyone does this at the border. Then what is normalized is deleting your encryption key while entering, they won’t prosecute everyone on their baseless prosecutions. Join in I say, there is no law being broken only scare tactics being applied to prevent this kind of thing. Normalize the act not the consequences.
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