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Posted by Jach 20 hours ago

There's no reason for software to be slow anymore(danluu.com)
612 points | 470 commentspage 7
chrisjj 3 hours ago|
Someone please tell me why a modern portable digital music player takes at least 10x as long to start up than its equivalent of 25 years ago.
IshKebab 19 hours ago||
Yeah.... maybe. I think AI is still too prone to go down rabbit holes and not understand the whole picture well enough to come up with good optimisations. It's probably good at micro-optimisation, e.g. pre-allocating arrays. But is it going to realise that you don't need that array in the first place? I dunno.

On the other hand it does mean there's no excuse for writing your program using Python or Electron or whatever, which will have a big effect on performance.

paulhebert 18 hours ago||
The reason for using Electron is to write once and run everywhere right?

I get that LLMs would make it faster to write distinct copies for different operating systems and maintain them both but thats still more costly than a single system.

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding the goal of Electron but it still seems cheaper and easier (although admittedly worse than multiple native apps)

IshKebab 8 hours ago||
Yeah that's my point. Maybe AI will lower that cost to the point where it makes sense to write e.g. a native Slack app. I dunno, we'll see.
punarinta 1 hour ago||
There is a native Slack client actually. Fast and with good feature coverage, it’s called msga.app
yboris 10 hours ago||
Are you suggesting Electron is slow? What evidence do you have? There may be a +200ms start up time compared to a native application; is that so bad?

Besides a bootup that is no longer than your browser's, everything else inside an Electron app can be identically fast to a native application.

Please be a better filter - do not spread bad memes.

IshKebab 8 hours ago||
> everything else inside an Electron app can be identically fast to a native application.

HTML layout and rendering is almost never as fast as GUIs like Qt. Also Electron apps usually use JavaScript which is slower than "fast" languages like C++/Rust/Kotlin/etc.

The reason people use Electron is because it's easy, especially if you have to have a website anyway. Slack is a great example of this. They already have a full website so it's kind of silly to redo the whole thing...

Unless AI makes it easy. We'll see I guess.

yboris 7 hours ago||
You are right about "almost never as fast as", but it is imperceptible to any human. We're talking about less than 100ms to render basically any typical UI, which then updates faster than 30fs. I said "identically fast"; I should have said "with respect to human perception".
panny 19 hours ago||
>LLMs are causing slow, bloated, code are going to eat crow once they re-write everything in super-optimized assembly

LLMs have caused such an increase in ram prices that pine64 is no longer making linux machines. When you can't afford RAM, as a direct result of LLMs, it's going to make your assembly app slower too. Sorry, this is the future you chose.

pdimitar 19 hours ago|
[flagged]
troupo 14 hours ago||
> There's no reason for software to be slow anymore

There has never been. We are running supercomputers. And somehow every app is a dog-slow barely moving monstrosity incapable of showing a page of text without stuttering.

delduca 6 hours ago||
I see N+1 everywhere
gcanyon 7 hours ago||
I'm a product manager. We work with Claude Code all the time, so I'm in Terminal pretty regularly. One of the developers insisted that I need to use his flavor of shell. He set it up to load automatically whenever I run Terminal, and now once the terminal window opens it takes another five seconds to get to the command line -- WTF?!
gulugawa 16 hours ago||
I agree with the headline, but I don't think LLMs are a reliable way of optimizing software.

First of all, coding speed is not the main bottleneck. I've been working on my own JavaScript framework. Most of my work is talking to people about challenges they have with web development, doing research on existing tools, and thinking about features to add.

Coding more slowly without LLM usage is a benefit because it helps me understand every line of code. The slower pace also helps me think about making things intuitive and reflect on my experiences with React.

While my framework is outperforming React, that isn't particularly impressive. On the other hand, it demonstrates how ignoring LLMs improves quality. Also, my monthly token spend is $0.

albatross79 10 hours ago||
Sure there is. Nobody cares about quality, mvp and get to market first is what counts. AI means there is more reason for software to be slow, because it creates code more quickly and with poorer quality.
supriyo-biswas 20 hours ago||
Well, at least with the RAM crunch that the AI boom has caused, I hope there will be some sort of pressure to write efficient software, otherwise device manufacturers are quite fucked.
WCSTombs 19 hours ago||
Yeah, I've been thinking this as well. I have some optimism, but not with high confidence. The exponentially increasing power of computing hardware up until this point is often cited as the reason performance optimization has been sidelined in the software industry. Now that there's a definite hiccup in that trend, I'm hoping programmers will remember that software actually can be fast and memory-efficient, and that poor design choices that lead to bad performance are exactly that, a choice.

The author of the article definitely seems to think LLMs are what enables this to happen, but I personally am much more skeptical of that. I think what it really needs is bringing engineering back into software, not just throwing LLMs at it and calling it a day.

newsomix9xl 20 hours ago|||
Yah, maybe $1k/dimm on 32 dimm system is a slight price bump.
jongjong 19 hours ago||
I've been hoping for this for my entire software engineering career but it never came.

It's messed up. Sometimes it feels like everything in the universe is aligned to ensure that skilled software engineers lead horrible lives full of anguish, frustration and powerlessness.

It feels like the economic system creates incentives which go against efficiency. So then it makes sense that software engineers would be most impacted.

There's a weird duality to our job; it's supposed to be about automation and efficiency but in reality, engineers who make the most money are those who create unnecessary complexity because it creates better lock-in and thus gives them more leverage in negotiations. And the tech monopolies they work for never seem to run out of money no matter how much enshittification occurs as a result.

Same perverse incentive for open source projects; engineers who lead projects that are full of bugs can charge more consulting fees and sell more enterprise licenses to work around the issues.

And engineers are often forced to use shitty tools by their employers so we're always stuck between a rock and a hard place with limited control over our output... Which we are blamed for when things go wrong but never given credit for when we pull heroic feats because those achievements are often overshadowed by missed deadlines resulting from being forced to use shitty software.

Adoption and quality are orthogonal, unfortunately.

Worst part is that nobody listens to us. Business people with money only listen to engineers who have money; who are mostly merchants of complexity. Engineers who care about efficiency have no voice in this market.

maxlin 6 hours ago|
It could very well be argued that a move towards more optimized, yet still human-readable languages is appropriate. In a _very_ generic sense, LLM's can pick up the slack of those languages being harder to write, AND hard to debug.

There is less of a need for super convenient, yet bloated languages now. For software that matters, and burns the most joules in the world, I hope we can also spend a few more tokens instead of doing it in interpreted python just because it's a bit easier for the LLM.

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