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Posted by bwb 7 hours ago

My favorite nonfiction books about cults, scams, and schemes(bookdna.com)
166 points | 58 comments
Hackbraten 6 hours ago|
No literature list on MLM scams can be complete without Bridget Read's meticulously researched 2025 book "Little Bosses Everywhere".
dackdel 4 hours ago|
sound like you lead a cult called "MERLBE" make everyone read little bosses everywhere.
dgellow 55 minutes ago||
The podcast « Decoding the Gurus » covers the topic in an entertaining way: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decoding-the-gurus/id1...
thinkingemote 6 hours ago||
For a British view, I like "Spying In Guru Land" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2487851.Spying_in_Guru_L...
webnrrd2k 1 hour ago||
Highly recommend: Life 102 - What to do when your guru sues you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_102

derektank 6 hours ago||
The author alluded to it, but I really think the BITE model of authoritarian control[0] is something everyone should know about. BITE stands for Behavioral, Information, Thought, and Emotional, which describes the 4 categories of controlling behaviors used by authoritarian groups (from religious cults, to the Maoist movement in post-war China, to multilevel marketing schemes). They really are surprisingly consistent, from controlling what members wear or how they cut their hair and encouraging sleep deprivation on the Behavioral side, to discouraging access to external sources of information, punishing people for asking questions or engaging in struggle sessions to get people to confess to false beliefs, and isolating people from the other people in their life that may love and care for them.

Not everyone or every group that exhibits some of these behaviors is going to be a cult. But the warning signs are something everyone should be aware of.

[0] https://freedomofmind.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/The-BIT...

alexpotato 1 hour ago||
I always thought the below was much simpler:

1. love bombing

- make you feel welcome/loved/accepted

- lots of attention etc

2. isolation

- "you weren't appreciated before so why hang out with those people"

- "your family didn't understand you, but we do so stay with us"

3. control

- "we have your best interests at heart so you should do X"

- etc

cogman10 2 hours ago|||
> Not everyone or every group that exhibits some of these behaviors is going to be a cult. But the warning signs are something everyone should be aware of.

I agree, but I'd say a lot of the BITE attributes can be damaging regardless of whether or not the group rises to the level of cult. If your group is doing stuff in BITE you really should be questioning "why" and thinking about whether or not the group policing is actually good for you.

jaggederest 1 hour ago|||
Another relevant rating scale that is pretty educational, in my opinion:

https://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

linohh 6 hours ago||
Steven Hassan, who developed the BITE model, is really missing on that list. You're absolutely correct, not everything that checks the boxes of the model necessarily is a cult, but more often than not it's only a small step to transform into one.
derektank 6 hours ago||
Hassan’s own account of being recruited into the Moonies while he was in college really highlights an important point too, almost anybody can fall into a cult. They prey on nearly universal human traits. I wish we had an effort to equip everyone with this knowledge in the same way we teach kids to stop, drop, and roll if they ever catch fire. Especially in our hyper-connected age where anyone with an internet connection might be exposed to a cult.
groundzeros2015 1 hour ago||
I have no sympathy for group bullying, hazing, or manipulation, but the concept of a cult seems to only be possible post-enlightenment. We say there is a secular society outside that we always need to preserve and that sets limits on the level of fanaticism of our private group memberships.

But the unanswered philosophical problem is if you actually believe in those things doesn’t some level of fanaticism make sense?

In 2026 so we are so divorced from organizations and non-secular sources of information that I don’t think we can even talk about the subject. A 1950s neighborhood bowling club looks like a jihadist training camp from our completely detached ways of living.

frankfrank13 7 hours ago||
Underground, by Murakami, was one of the better books I've read. It mostly covers victims, but the later chapters are interviews with various members of the Aum cult. It does a pretty decent job of presenting the psyche of the type of person who joins, stays, and some that leave. Although mostly relevant for what he calls the "Japanese psyche" I still found it very insightful.
cousin_it 5 hours ago||
My favorite read about cults is this short interview with Richard DeMille about Ron Hubbard: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/... The interviewee comes across as extremely level-headed, maybe as a reaction to having been in a cult and escaped.
cogman10 2 hours ago||
One definition of a cult I've liked is "A cult is a group you can't leave with your dignity intact". You can really get a good understanding if something is a cult by the way they talk about their ex members. A healthy organization will pretty much just say "Sad to see you go, come back anytime". Unhealthy organizations spend a fair amount of time warning members about how how dangerous/bad/sinful/sad/miserable their ex members are.

And yes, I'd call several mainstream religions cults because of this. I'd not argue that something isn't a cult if they don't fit this definition, but a very large number of the most damaging cults do have this behavior.

graemep 2 hours ago||
> And yes, I'd call several mainstream religions cults because of this

Which ones ? Not something I have seen myself

I do like your definition. Its a pretty clear and meaningful distinction and linked to other cult behaviours such as encouraging members to cease contact with ex-members.

CrazyStat 2 hours ago||
People I know personally were strongly ostracized after leaving Jehovah's Witnesses (in the US) and the Catholic church (in Latin America). Cut out of their existing social circles, immediate family members refusing to attend their wedding over it, etc.
kstrauser 1 hour ago|||
JW was the first one I thought of by that definition.

I was raised Southern Baptist. When I stopped going, the church contacted me a couple of times to say they missed us and asked if everything was OK, and to say they'd love to have us back if we wanted to come back sometime. My parents weren't thrilled but that's less religion, more family dynamics: it was much the same when they found out I didn't support their preferred political party anymore. That was about it, though. The church didn't lean on us in any way, or tell people to stop talking to us, or use any other means to cajole or punish us.

My thinking on cults is very similar to all this, plus another distinguisher. A cult typically requires you to join before you get all the information about what you're signing up for. I've never been a Muslim, but know that if you walk into a mosque, someone will cheerfully greet you and load you up with a Koran and all kinds of other reading material. Same with any mainstream Protestant church, or the Catholic church, or Hindu, or Buddhist, etc. In fact, many/most churches won't let you join until you've shown that you understand that church's beliefs. Compare and contrast with, say, Scientology, which is notoriously different.

groundzeros2015 1 hour ago|||
If that’s the definition both political parties are included.
cogman10 1 hour ago||
Not really. Both mainstream political parties don't like each other, but by and large they don't attack someone for leaving the party (from what I've seen).

Perhaps if you are saying attacks of politicians switching parties, which I could see. But I don't think I've ever heard of republicans talking about exrepublicans or democrats talking about exdemocrats. I personally have switched from voting republican to voting democrat. It's not something my family really cares about and I still have good relations with them even though a number of them are pretty MAGA.

Cults will actually have lessons and classes about the evils of ex members. Someone brought up JWs and that's a pretty good example of what I'm thinking of.

groundzeros2015 1 hour ago||
I think you’re correct that mainstream leaders of the parties try not to talk about each other in that way and mostly succeed. But I absolutely do know family members and friends treat it with that level of zeal.
jcsager 1 hour ago||
Apostasy is treated very severely by many (most?) religions. The cults have just borrowed that concept.
cogman10 1 hour ago||
I'd disagree. Most religions don't love apostasy but they also don't actively tell their members to go out of their way to punish or avoid non-believers.

The reason cults severely punish ex members is to protect the flock. They don't want their members to learn from ex members real criticisms of the cult.

It's precisely so when books like mentioned in this thread come up, the cult can say "oh, that's just a bad ex member who's lying".

The idea of "forbidden knowledge" is pretty unique to cults. You won't find, for example, a Methodist church that tells you not to read exmethodist books (do they even exist?). Heck, they probably wouldn't even get upset if you read something like "The god delusion".

omsta 3 hours ago|
Cultish (by Amanda Montell) is great. It also defines really well how Claude speaks currently---avant la lettre, of course. Language is a big part of the book: one example is how Scientologists can recognize each other in the wild from the language they have unknowingly adopted even for everyday conversations.
dgellow 2 hours ago|
I’m native French speaker and do not understand what you mean with “avant la lettre”. That translates to “before the letter”, what do you mean?
mistersquid 1 hour ago|||
> I’m native French speaker and do not understand what you mean with “avant la lettre”. That translates to “before the letter”, what do you mean?

Metaphorical language, of which French is a rich source, often prevents native speakers from understanding. Literal translations are of no avail.

> avant la lettre : before the letter : before the (specified) word or concept existed [0]

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avant%20la%20lett...

dgellow 1 hour ago||
TIL, I should have just googled it, I assumed it was a bad auto complete

Thanks!

klez 1 hour ago|||
I think they meant the same as the latin phrase "ante litteram"
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