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Posted by tosh 11 hours ago

Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded(twitter.com)
https://xcancel.com/lemire/status/2091894299289874926
716 points | 483 commentspage 5
thefourthchime 10 hours ago|
This smells somewhat legitimate and somewhat BS. The architecture itself looks impressive — TSMC 3nm, a 4+ GHz prime core, tons of cache, and a very wide execution engine. And the claimed Geekbench numbers — around *3,945 single-core and 15,221 multi-core* — are especially impressive, if not a little suspicious.

But it’s sorta like, let’s throw everything against the wall and get the biggest number we can. Do they show sustained performance over ten minutes? What’s the power draw when it’s doing 15K? What happens when you put it in an actual phone?

This was done in a cold room. It seems more like a proof of concept for what they could do than something that could actually ship in a phone and sustain those numbers.

cogman10 10 hours ago||
Were I to guess

> The biggest cores on the the Xring O3 are the C1-Ultra. C1-Ultra really powerful cores. They support SME2 (Scalable Matrix Extension 2) for matrix/AI acceleration, SVE2 for data parallelism (SIMD).

This is where the magic is happening (I believe). They have these ultra cores with additional extensions which they are pinning the benchmarks to.

Realistically, that sort of thing isn't useful as non-homogeneous architectures really suck for an application or OS to deal with.

bri3d 10 hours ago|||
> Realistically, that sort of thing isn't useful as non-homogeneous architectures really suck for an application or OS to deal with.

I agree that if each core doesn't "support" the full ISA it's a huge pain (the one generation of Intel AVX-512-but-not parts were incredible), but that hasn't been common in years. Usually (and in this case, according to my reading) the small cores get a horrible slow/decoder-emulated implementation of every instruction, so that if you schedule on the "wrong" core you don't trap but just run really slowly instead.

Otherwise, heterogeneous architectures are the present and future of mobile and consumer desktops and have been for years. Desktop OSes are getting better and mobile OSes are just fine at scheduling across different core families (the higher level of abstraction everyone complains about in mobile apps actually helps a lot here).

tensegrist 7 hours ago||
didn't intel discontinue heterogeneous (laptop?) chips recently
bri3d 7 hours ago||
Only server, as far as I know. Server is now either high-density E core (Sierra Forest) or low-density P core (Granite Rapids), but desktop and laptop are heterogeneous still; laptops are getting even more heterogeneous because they have P-Cores, E-cores, and Low Power Island cores.
brigade 10 hours ago|||
All 10 cores support the same extensions. It’s silly to implement an SoC any other way, and it’s been a decade since someone has last made that mistake.
thesmtsolver2 10 hours ago|||
Doesn’t matter. Details don’t matter. Look at the top comment thread: just politics and no discussion of the tech.
alain94040 10 hours ago|||
It will be interesting to find out the details. From the block diagram, the core only issues 10 instructions per cycle, so not especially wide. Maybe the performance will be worse once in a real phone in real thermal conditions, but if that's true, it could make for a very interesting laptop or desktop chip. Time will tell.
brigade 9 hours ago||
The C1-ultra has a decode of 10 instructions but can issue up to 23 uop per cycle, that’s a good bit wider than any other CPU. In particular, I believe it’s the first CPU to have a 4th load pipeline.
ksec 10 hours ago|||
It is just the same as MediaTek Dimensity 9500. They managed 4000+ point in lab, but real world it was much closer to 3300.

It is still not a bad results though. And we are about to see MediaTek Dimensity 9600 based on ARM C2-Ultra.

RicoElectrico 10 hours ago||
> But it’s sorta like, let’s throw everything against the wall and get the biggest number we can.

From what I recall reading, the impressive performance of Apple mobile CPUs is partly attributable to throwing more silicon area at the problem while not being as cost sensitive (no need to share margin with SoC vendor)

cute_boi 9 hours ago||
US Government - China is a security risk & they will steal our data. We should ban xiaomi for national security risk. We found the phone collecting telemetry..... just like google and apple.
ur-whale 9 hours ago||
2020's US geopolitical doctrine:

1) Pick a historically extremely innovative and disciplined culture which also happens to have massive human capital

2) Please arbitrary artificial ill-thought-out economic constraints on them

3) wait a while

4) get a bunch of magnificent spanking in return (AI, chips, etc...)

cromka 9 hours ago|
This worked just as well in the 1980s when they wanted to protect their auto industry...
jeffbee 10 hours ago||
Is raw perf considered Apple's moat? I think it's their software. I would buy a MacOS laptop even if the performance is ghastly ... in fact, I did: the MacBook Neo.
turblety 9 hours ago||
I don't like Apple as a company or how they act around locking people out of the devices they buy.

I'm willing to pay double the cost of a MacBook Pro for anything that can run Linux, similar performance to M5, have a decent battery, good touchpad, be silent, have a good display, be light and portable.

It doesn't exist. MacBook's simply have the best hardware, but terrible software/philosophy of software.

So I'd say their moat is hardware in general. Performance, yes to an extent, but it's performance vs heat vs energy vs battery life and all their peripherals.

cromka 5 hours ago|||
> I'm willing to pay double the cost of a MacBook Pro for anything that can run Linux, similar performance to M5, have a decent battery, good touchpad, be silent, have a good display, be light and portable.

This is Zenbook A16 right now, with recent patches posted to Linux ARM mailing list that support it in full.

da02 6 hours ago|||
Any thoughts on the "Framework Laptop 13 Pro"?
adgjlsfhk1 1 hour ago||
Doesn't meet the same silent or single core perf requirements. probably the closest out there though.
Thomashuet 10 hours ago|||
Yes it is. I've bought a MacBook air despite despising MacOS (with the hope that Asahi support will come eventually) because the processor currently has no competition.
jeffbee 9 hours ago||
That's sort of weird though because unless the operating system supports your applications, the performance of the processor cannot be appreciated.
kccqzy 7 hours ago||
My applications are generally open-source and volunteers have already compiled them to any and all operating systems whose tool chain is available.
mceachen 9 hours ago|||
The general workload performance (browsing, text editing) is comparable for neo and m* MacBooks afaict.

Ghastly was macOS on an Intel MacBook Air.

jeffbee 9 hours ago||
Why would we compare it to an 8-year-old design? For browsing, the current MBP smokes the MBN, by margins of roughly one-third. It is a significant and noticeable regression. For sustained workloads like software development or even running the MacOS updates, it is a huge and glaring regression. But it's still good kit.
kccqzy 7 hours ago|||
Yes it is. And it has been that way for more than a decade for typical consumer-oriented single-threaded workloads like running JavaScript on a webpage.
adgjlsfhk1 9 hours ago||
the MacBook neo has faster single core perf than any x86 laptop (for the first 0.5 sec which is what matters for ui responsiveness).
brcmthrowaway 10 hours ago||
Insane if true. Does Xiaomi sell laptops?
t-3 10 hours ago||
Yeah, but they're just normal Intel stuff.
npn 10 hours ago||
I have Mi Notebook Pro. Not that bad actually.

But they have stopped making premium laptop since then.

gok 10 hours ago||
"Arm-designed CPU core matches Apple-designed CPU core from a year ago"
gigatexal 8 hours ago||
good. competition is good. we, the consumers, win.

the a20pro and what not will match or beat it and the cycle will continue.

if this chip turns into a decent desktop chip then arm linux laptops might be very nice.

malkosta 8 hours ago||
Great, now they can put much more Ads in my notes app...
ilyassanida 7 hours ago|
can't wait to see Xiaomi enter the GPUs market and beats Nvidia
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