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Posted by herbertl 5 hours ago

Where did all the public bathrooms go?(daily.jstor.org)
88 points | 149 commentspage 2
obelos 58 minutes ago|
People don't want to “abuse” commons like public restrooms, parks, buses, and so on. They do so because they have no choice, having been displaced out of having a private place to do the things they're now forced to do in public places. This is all just an outcropping of the housing crisis, which is itself an outcropping of the billionaire crisis. End billionaires, and we have the resources to de-gild this age.
zer0x4d 52 minutes ago|
I disagree. A lot of people do not care about public facilities. They do not believe in leaving things better than they found them. You've seen these people around, you know who they are. These are the same people that don't rerack weights at the gym or don't put the cart back at the supermarket. That attitude has nothing to do with income, housing, race, or activity they are interested in. It's simply a result of narcissism. The only way is stopping excuses and enforcing the public etiquette. The world will be much better off.
obelos 10 minutes ago||
Sure, and thankfully there aren't nearly as many of them out and about abusing more things if they have a private place always available to spend their time. Conscientiousness is one of the handful of measurable personality traits, and there's a scale to it because some people have more of it than others. That's not going to change. What we can change is the degree to which less conscientious people are forced to lean on the conscientiousness of others around them in order to live every moment of their lives. The collapse of social safety net—pilfered in order to pay for mega yachts and renting entire cities for a wedding receiption—in the West and particularly the US pushes those less conscientious people out into the world all the time.
readingnews 5 hours ago||
This seems to be happening in public parks also. I visit two cities literally half way across the country from one another, and have visited them for decades. All of the public restrooms in the public city parks (which are quite popular with locals and tourists) are gone. First they closed them, then they tore down the buildings. Locals thought "oh, must be putting in new ones", but no, they were torn down and never replaced.
mjhay 1 hour ago|
Around where I live, they first shut down during covid with the excuse of preventing transmission. Of course they just never opened up again. Ditto water fountains.
cube00 5 hours ago||
Strange "For the Classroom" question.

Men seeking same-sex encounters transformed the pissoir into something its planners never intended. Who ultimately determines the meaning of a public space: its designers, authorities, or the people who use it?

The law determines that public space can't be used for any sexual activity.

I'm not sure what constructive classroom discussion you can have when the example is based on the law being broken.

teraflop 4 hours ago||
Surely there are all kinds of interesting and constructive classroom discussions to be had about lawbreaking.

Classrooms teach about reality (among other things) and there are many things in reality that don't involve obedience to the law, as it exists at a particular time and place.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

throwawayk7h 6 minutes ago||
See also also: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpo...
urbnspacecowboy 1 hour ago|||
> The law determines that public space can't be used for any sexual activity.

Follow-up question: Does an enclosed stall count as "public space"?

mcbuilder 1 hour ago||
If I'm about to step into it 5 seconds after you leave, yes it does.
michaelt 1 hour ago||
And yet when I want to do some photography, as is my right in public spaces, everyone gets all indignant.
ludwik 4 hours ago|||
It sounds like, of the three options given, you are squarely in the “authorities” camp (although it seems to me that you interpret the question as asking what you believe should happen, whereas it appears to be asking what happens in practice). Wouldn’t it be interesting to hear the other points of view?
xhevahir 4 hours ago|||
They're probably talking about the sociological functions of the facility, not the set of legally permissible uses of it. (There's a pretty famous book on this particular application, Tearoom Trade: Impersonal Sex In Public Places.)
smcg 4 hours ago||
That didn't stop... a lot of people.
izzydata 5 hours ago||
I am going to start calling the reduction or removal of minor things that helped society "micro regressions".
Lammy 46 minutes ago||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y31WAq4cENo
Avicebron 5 hours ago|||
Is tragedy of the commons overused?
jihadjihad 5 hours ago|||
Enpissification?
mingus88 4 hours ago|||
I’m not sure it’s a regression really

If you look at a graph of the world population it’s seems clear to me that freely available common resources are just going to continue to get overused and ruined as we continue to add people to the equation

mym1990 1 hour ago|||
It probably isn't as much about population growth as the increasing wealth gap. My hypothesis would be that a society where people don't feel fair distribution of wealth is more prone to this 'abuse' that you call 'overuse'.
moduspol 16 minutes ago||
I think it's mostly drug addicts.
fwip 3 hours ago||||
Surely bathrooms are something we can produce faster than the rate at which population increases.
micromacrofoot 2 hours ago|||
but wouldn't that also follow... more people can create and maintain more common resources?

tbh I think this falls into a more familiar pattern with a coincidentally fitting name: enshittification

no one makes money off of public toilets, so they don't exist anymore

nashashmi 4 hours ago||
Micro-regressions will largely be in the realm of charity and hospitality as society has aggressively embodied capitalism's cost and benefit analysis.
bluefirebrand 4 hours ago||
Don't forget privacy

Feels like tons of micro regressions around our expectations of privacy these days

MrDrMcCoy 5 hours ago||
I want to know where the public water fountains went. Those are arguably a safety feature.
nikole9696 3 hours ago||
At least in my area, a lot of folks didn't trust the tap water, and more didn't trust the fountain to not be super germy, so fountains just didn't end up used. I noticed many shuttered during COVID then they never got turned back on, then eventually got removed.

I have seen indoor fountains gradually being replaced with water bottle filler stations, but I personally wonder how often those filters get replaced.

redsocksfan45 4 hours ago||
[dead]
vondur 4 hours ago||
Here in the SoCal area the homeless were taking over bathrooms to live in.
Simon_O_Rourke 5 hours ago||
I think it stopped once public bathrooms became used for things other than taking a whizz
expedition32 5 hours ago||
Yeah you have to actually hire people to clean them and patrol for homeless weirdos. Which is why in my country they cost money.

I never really understood the economics of public restrooms in America. Who pays for them?

selectodude 5 hours ago|||
We thought it was mean to homeless people to make them pay for bathrooms and made it illegal to charge. Then once bathrooms because a massive cost center, we closed all the public restrooms and made it a sex offense to piss outside. So now instead of making homeless people pay $1 for a toilet, we throw them in jail at a cost of $100k/yr.

Thank these folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_to_End_Pay_Toilets_i... - the road to hell is paved with good intentions I suppose.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4 hours ago|||
Having lived in SF, LA and NYC, I find it very hard to believe that the homeless or the addicts roaming the streets in big cities are being thrown into jail for much of anything short of overt violent behavior. You can see people drop a deuce in the middle of Mission St any day of the week and nobody bats an eye. As people say, "it's just a normal part of life in a big city".
jerlam 4 hours ago||||
We're not throwing the homeless in jail here, but all the streets smell like urine and you have to watch your step on the sidewalk.
rawgabbit 4 hours ago||
A few years ago I visited downtown SF for a convention at Moscone center. I remember walking along St Patrick’s thinking this is a beautiful place but , my God, the entire area stinks of urine.
phainopepla2 4 hours ago|||
Where are we throwing homeless people in jail for pissing outside?
cnity 5 hours ago||||
The public pays for them via taxes.
addaon 5 hours ago||||
> Who pays for them?

Americans. The same population as most of the beneficiaries.

mosura 5 hours ago||||
The problem with homeless is also what do you do with them when you find them?
nitwit005 4 hours ago||
Several bathrooms at the openings to hiking trails near me had been smeared with feces. The local newspaper reported someone was caught and taken to a homeless shelter. I remain suspicious that simply resulted in the shelter's bathroom meeting the same fate.
ssl-3 4 hours ago||||
We all pay for it. We do this whether publicly-accessible restrooms exist or do not exist.

Everybody poops; shit happens. The only real question is: Where does this shit happen?

alephnerd 4 hours ago||||
> I never really understood the economics of public restrooms in America. Who pays for them?

Local sales, income, and/or property taxes.

Municipalities, counties, state, and the federal government all have the power of taxation in the US.

xboxnolifes 4 hours ago|||
I don't think I've seen a public bathroom in America in my lifetime. They're all privately owned, usually required through regulation.

But to answer your question, public things are paid for by the public.

toast0 3 hours ago|||
Never been to a public park with a bathroom, or a state provided highway rest stop?

Many transit centers are owned and operated by a municipal transit agency and typically have restrooms, especially large airports and train stations.

ssl-3 2 hours ago||||
We've got a ton of actually-public restrooms in my neck of the woods (in Ohio).

Public rest areas are pretty common along major highways and these include restrooms.

Publicly-owned parks usually provide a place to poop, too: Sometimes it's an installation with composting toilets, sometimes it's just a seat over a septic pit that needs pumped out periodically. Sometimes, it's fancy with flushing toilets and sinks for handwashing. Other times, it's just a rented portajohn (that may be full of spiders and smell like death, or be very tidy). And sometimes, they're locked at night when the park is closed. But -- usually -- public parks of any substance offer something for facilities.

Just last week, I worked next to a public park in a very small town (population ~2,000) with some well-maintained basketball and tennis courts. There were a couple of portajohns present. (I did not investigate them further.)

And when there's a major events that draw crowds, like our very public fireworks displays in downtown areas: Temporary restroom facilities are provided.

What we don't have very much of here are permanent, literal-public restrooms in the denser parts of cities. That is very problematic, but it is slowly improving[1].

[1]: https://downtownservices.org/news-article/three-public-restr...

happyopossum 1 hour ago|||
> I don't think I've seen a public bathroom in America in my lifetime.

You've never been to the beach, a city park (or state or national park), a highway rest stop, or any of the thousands of other places public restrooms exist?

What a weird take...

foolinaround 2 hours ago||
the public bathroom should be redesigned so that one can do only the thing it is designed for - and maybe it needs to be a single-user design.

Almost like an airline bathroom size - might be a bit claustrophobic but these are for emergencies and space saving would be big.

the doors could be wired to sensors that are connected to a central network that shows in real-time the availability and also some alarms if something is out of the ordinary etc.

muwtyhg 2 hours ago||
How do you accommodate ADA requirements?
trgn 1 hour ago||
seeing the commons get worse in your lifetime, span of 10-15 years, if we're really precise about it, really is quite a trip.
kazinator 4 hours ago||
A pissoir is of little comfort when you badly need a shittoir.
forinti 4 hours ago|
I used one these things in Portugal a few years ago.

They are definitely not thought for women.

forinti 1 hour ago|
But I have to say that if you have a very cheap solution for 25% of your use cases you should definitely use it.

What you can't do is neglect the other 75%.

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