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Posted by smoser 16 hours ago

Inception-style curved map for turn-by-turn directions(www.orbify.eu)
453 points | 149 comments
tomgp 14 hours ago|
First time I saw this idea was Berg's "Here and There" poster from 2009 (a year before Inception) though they acknowledge a bunch of earlier inspirations...

https://berglondon.com/blog/2009/05/04/here-there-influences...

hex4def6 13 hours ago||
That seems like enough prior art to invalidate much of what could conceivably be considered novel in the pending patent...
mxfh 8 hours ago|||
I once saw a patent on that already earlier somewhere, which i assumed was the reason none of the automotive navigation UI's where doing this.

Just checked again, and it's verbatim this use case and even active until 2030 still:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20100305853A1/en

3-D map display

Abstract

A computer generated 3-dimensional map display includes a reference icon identifying an observation point in the geographic area defined by the map, the map being presented on a curved surface which extends from a first plane to a second plane which is substantially orthogonal to the first plane. The observation point is located in the first plane. The display is configured such that the height of landmarks and buildings in a defined foreground of the reference icon are presented normal to the first plane, the height of land marks and buildings at a defined far distance are presented normal to the second plane and the height of land marks and buildings in a defined middle ground are presented normal to the non-linear portion of the curved surface. The geographic area represented can be translated along the curved surface to provide a perception that the reference icon is roaming through the displayed geographic area.

By no other than "Here and There" Schulze and Webb Ltd later rebranded to BERG.

The generic use case of a multiperspective camera method for that was arguable covered in a 1997 Disney paper latest.

Multiperspective Panoramas for Cel Animation https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall00/cs597b/p...

jimmydddd 11 hours ago|||
The patent application is not yet publically available, so I can't tell what aspects of the system they are trying to protect. They probably have some narrowly tailored features that they can protect. Maybe related to the rendering, or some toggle button feature of the display. But, as to the broad concept of a curved hybrid combination of street view and overhead view, I agree that they will not be able to protect that aspect.
lynndotpy 11 hours ago|||
Yep. First time I saw this idea was Animal Crossing: Wild Word's "rolling log" effect in 2005, albeit in reverse. (So you get a top-down view and a horizon view at the same time). Second time I saw this specific idea was a Minecraft vertex shader in 2013 with the "Acid Shaders" vertex transform shaders.
kouunji 7 hours ago|||
Was thinking the same thing- I still have those posters and was thinking of them when I saw this was patent pending.
littleweep 4 hours ago|||
For me it was Halo: Combat Evolved
toypaj 12 hours ago|||
Exactly what I thought of, I bought these posters at the time and they are still in the cardboard tube.
vinaigrette 12 hours ago|||
Great memory, great reference!
Freedom2 9 hours ago||
I remember working on something like this as early as 1999! It was for a small European company, sadly we weren't able to put it out due to licensing restrictions at the time.
sd9 14 hours ago||
This is a really good proof of concept. I would use this.

Something about the moment of the turn itself isn’t working for me though. Just before the turn you have essentially no information about the route ahead, until after the turn is completed. This would make a sequence of consecutive turns difficult to navigate.

necovek 34 minutes ago||
I had similar thoughts, but this is a largely solved problem: even headlights in my Volvo turn as I turn the wheel, and it should be easy to change rendering direction to an "average" of road tangents for the next say 50m (would depend on the speed and would need experimenting to know the best value).
fishpen0 12 hours ago|||
This is exactly why on traditional gps maps I prefer it to be very very zoomed out. It's far too common that mapping tools make something like a sudden second turn invisible to you until it is too late to switch lanes.
tshaddox 10 hours ago|||
I find that Apple Maps is typically pretty smart with its automatic zoom. For a typical intersection with just one turn to navigate, it will zoom in to give you a good sense of the lanes, stop signs/lights, etc. But when there are consecutive turns to navigate, or a heavily curved section of road (like highway on-ramps) it will zoom out and even rotate the map to show that upcoming context.
tikotus 9 hours ago|||
Apple Maps got really good at some point! I once pick it by accident for navigation, and never went back to Google Maps.
shric 3 hours ago|||
It’s unusable in Sydney, Australia.

It might be fine for pure navigation to addresses but business addresses and other metadata are often missing or out of date because people only bother to update Google Maps. Also that’s where all the reviews are.

I don’t want to use two different apps for navigation vs finding businesses.

hooch 20 minutes ago||
Since the last time I tried, Apple Maps has come down from plotting some 30 petrol stations in the Sydney CBD to 2. There are in fact none.

Apart from needing to copy and paste destination addresses from Google/Google Maps every time I use Apple Maps, it's great.

tshaddox 8 hours ago||||
I've used it almost exclusively since around 2019, but that has been in the Bay Area and LA area where the data has presumably been very good relative to other areas.
ChrisMarshallNY 8 hours ago||||
I think it may depend on where you are.

Around here (Long Island, NY), it's far better than Google Maps, and I use it all the time.

I've heard that it falls down, in rural areas, though.

irishcoffee 5 hours ago|||
I uninstalled Google Maps when it started draining my iPhone battery at an absurd rate. Apple Maps it is.
twobitshifter 4 hours ago|||
I have had an occasional problem where a large building ends up blocking my view, but in general it’s very good.
jerf 10 hours ago|||
I remember for at least a while people would complain about how GPS navigation ruined their sense of the local area. Probably stopped hearing about it because people have just surrendered to the apps, but I think part of the reason is also that by default they were just zoomed in way too close. If you forced them back out a ways, I was actually learning a lot about my local area. Like, there's all these subdivisions around, you know, and from the outside who knows what connects to what, I'm not going to just duck in to a subdivision and physically navigate the streets to see how they're all connected, but driving around with the navigation made it much more clear... when it was zoomed out somewhat.
shrx 9 hours ago||
This is also a problem with Google Maps navigation. It is always showing the perspective looking straight ahead of your current direction, even when you're approaching a sharp turn. Instead, the perspective should be along a vector connecting your current location with the point where the navigation's path crosses the edge of the display, pointing straight up.
NikolaNovak 7 hours ago|||
Took me a while to figure out what you're saying, now I assume you're using the "up is direction of motion"?

I use map view / north is up, which makes it reasonably easy to get he big picture - I encourage everybody to try it :).

kccqzy 9 hours ago||||
That seems very wrong and unintuitive for U-turns.
ssl-3 9 hours ago||
It does.

Let us embrace this minor imperfection by simply excluding U-turns from this presentation method.

pishpash 9 hours ago|||
So why not use 2D maps, have people lost the ability to read North up maps? I swear ever since paper maps have not been used in cars, people have gotten spatially dumber.
tonyarkles 8 hours ago||
I love north-up maps because I find they give me way better spatial context. My truck’s nav system gives north-up as an option but my phone and my truck map both suffer from the same problem on different axes. My phone sits in its holder vertically, so I have way more north-south context than east-west. The truck screen is landscape, same problem north-south! A square map north-up would be amazing!
orbital-decay 13 hours ago||
This looks pretty neat but also distracting and not very convenient. A useful follow mode should provide a view into the next several dozen seconds of road conditions. This projection forces road sections after sharp turns to go off screen, and does nothing to compensate for that (e.g. by rotating the view), so the distance and time of useful prediction changes constantly. Since you're already willing to give the driver nausea, consider unwrapping 90 degree turns into something more straight until they're close enough.
albrewer 9 hours ago||
I think it'd be pretty easy to fix, too. Have a point on the line that represents "10 seconds from now" and orient your camera along the line between that and the point representation of your car, with slow, smooth panning so as not to get jerky transitions. If "10 seconds from now" is within a certain range of the car, it ought to just default to whatever its doing now.
cousinbryce 13 hours ago|||
I found it useful because it shows context for the next turn and information about the street network near the next turn
jonash54 12 hours ago||
I agree and for me that weirdly felt more natural
dwd 6 hours ago|||
It could possibly be less nausea-inducing and make the turns less jarring if the follow pespective was slightly elevated and not at ground level.
jimmySixDOF 10 hours ago|||
you might find it better in openstreetmap

https://x.com/rikarends/status/2093273761797554552

naravara 12 hours ago||
I feel like video game logic would be useful here where a view like this would replace the main view and the “macro view” would be a minimap in the corner.

I think where the actual distraction is comes from the level of detail. It would actually benefit from just having silhouettes or lower resolution “suggestions” of what’s there. It’s maybe just the buildings on the corners of turns or specific landmarks you’d want fully rendered so people could follow ambiguous directions like “Turn left at church, but not the Methodist church the Episcopal one!”

tantalor 14 hours ago||
I see a whole new business category being born: Nausea as a Service!
SrslyJosh 6 hours ago||
Yes, I'm not normally prone to motion sickness, but the change of perspective during a turn is quite unpleasant.
rootusrootus 13 hours ago|||
Yeah it made me feel the instant onset of what I recognize from vast personal experience as motion sickness. I would never be able to use this.

Even aside from that, the constant feeling of going downhill would be off-putting to me.

drob518 13 hours ago||
Yea, I felt like I was perpetually at the top of a roller coaster and going over the hump, but never finding the bottom. And I like roller coasters. But no thanks. Not even sure what the benefits of this view really are.
krashidov 13 hours ago|||
It's already been done - VR
Gigachad 4 hours ago|||
I have no problem with VR, but this demo was very disorienting. I can’t even imagine trying to look at this while driving.
blitzar 8 hours ago|||
b-AR-f Bags - half surgical mask half airplane sick bag

Im clicking "Apply to YC" right now

Foreskin_Mafia 10 hours ago||
Nausea as a service, while begging for investments...
leblancfg 12 hours ago||
Great idea and demo. My main gripe when using Google Maps in the car is lack of information about the next turns — when do I change lanes, and to which one? This could be natively addressed here, especially if the blue navigation line was a little thinner and showed which lane(s) the driver needs to take.
Carrok 12 hours ago|
This comment confuses me a bit because Google Maps (at least in the US, in my experience) is really great about telling you what lane to be in.
toast0 10 hours ago|||
> Google Maps (at least in the US, in my experience) is really great about telling you what lane to be in.

Having recently driven in Boston[1], the problem is that Google Maps tells you what lane you need to be in when the route divergence happens... it doesn't tell you what lane you need to be in to get to that lane.

So I would see guidance like be in the first or second lane (from the left) to make this left turn and all seemed well since I was in the second lane from the left. Then two more lanes merged in from the left and I had to get over two lanes and ended up on a two mile onramp for the highway to New Hampshire.

I see the same things locally, but it's not as obviously bad because I'm familiar with the local highways and also most of the local highways aren't as space constrained so there's almost always plenty of time to merge.

[1] I don't recommend it... we should have driven to the airport and returned our car and taken transit back to our hotel

leblancfg 12 hours ago||||
I need to know what lane I'll need to be in next so I can plan in advance.
dhosek 11 hours ago||
Yeah, there’s a tendency not to know with sufficient time, especially with heavy traffic.
philistine 11 hours ago||||
Not every road owner in the world has provided how many lanes a road has. To tell you which lane to stay in, it need to know how many there are!
ssl-3 9 hours ago|||
Where in the world are these road owners, and do they really eve provide this kind of information to mapping companies?

Here in the States, most of the roads are "owned" by the people and our various thousands of governmental jurisdictions do not tell anyone about these kinds of details in any uniform way.

We just kind of figure it out on our own.

leblancfg 9 hours ago||||
That's also where this map would help, it can definitely degrade gracefully. If I know I have two right-hand turns coming, I can take the decision for myself.
mthoms 8 hours ago|||
This information is all derived from overhead (satellite and aerial) imagery combined with street level imagery (like from Google street view). No road owners required.
archonis 11 hours ago|||
It fails the task as often as not on large East Coast highways. Not nearly as bad on the West Coast.
pmkary 1 hour ago||
This is pure Bret-Victorian magic. Really the greatest single notational/visualization I have seen in a long long time. Wow. I'm so in love.
vessenes 15 hours ago||
This is cool. May I suggest that you make the standard deformation much less spherical? I do not get nauseous that easily and it made me a little nauseous, feeling like I was falling. I would not want to watch that while driving in a car. But 1/3 of the way from ‘flat’ to that would be super useful.
niek_pas 14 hours ago||
I'm with you on this. I think this could actually be really useful but the effect is way too extreme. Additionally, the animation is quite stuttery on turns --- might just be my machine though.
Orbify_Karsten 14 hours ago|||
thanks. Yes, youre not the first one saying that. Next demo update will have more options
justusthane 14 hours ago|||
Same. I don't get motion sick, and this made me feel uneasy. It would make my wife motion sick instantly. It's an interesting concept though, and I can see the utility of it.
goosejuice 14 hours ago||
Agreed. I have no problem with a tilt a whirl but this triggers something.
Orbify_Karsten 16 hours ago||
Thanks for sharing! Building this in public, check my X for more updates! https://x.com/karshuit
kogus 13 hours ago||
I don't really know why, but the thought of my (elderly) mother using this made me laugh almost as hard as the El Risitas guy[1]. I adore it, and it also should never ever be used in any car GPS scenario. It's far too distracting, and puts far too much emphasis on the places you are not going.

I could see it being useful for a more exploratory style of map, however. Games like Pokemon Go come to mind as a place where this would be pretty cool.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkk9DI-8el4

dmd 5 hours ago|
> far too much emphasis on the places you are not going

I have this issue with literally every modern nav system. They all make their fundamental display a line marked on a map, and most of the information on that map is irrelevant.

More than 20 years ago I had some kind of Verizon flip-open phone with a QWERTY keyboard. No idea what model, but it had this fabulous nav interface that just showed big arrows showing your next two turns and a schematic diagram of what the next turn would look like. I wish I could get something like that, but with Google's data as the back end.

HighGodLoki 13 hours ago|
That's almost perfect.

Proposal: The use case is to inform the user of landmarks on the route before they need them, giving visual cues about the scenery.

It's missing an early distortion along the direction of the turn though, each turn feels jarring and drops the useful spatial awareness aspect.

jonash54 12 hours ago|
I miss such a landmark feature in all available routing apps and think it will become standard in selfdriving cars where there is more possibility for the driver to look around the landscape
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