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Posted by zdw 1 day ago

Creepy Crawlies(people.kernel.org)
1216 points | 609 commentspage 10
Velocifyer 21 hours ago|
But why don't they just git clone?
rcxdude 20 hours ago||
These crawlers (in contrast to e.g. googlebot and similar better behaved crawlers) are not very smart: they seem to make very little effort to avoiding crawling useless deep trees of generated pages. About the only thing they seem to put a lot of effort into is avoiding blocking.

(I'll note that while these are generally attributed to AI data gathering because of the timing of when they took off, it's not actually obvious who's running these bots. The big players all have crawlers that identify themselves and are reasonably well behaved, but I don't know if anyone has managed to positively attribute these other ones to any particular group)

ipdashc 20 hours ago|||
> it's not actually obvious who's running these bots

This is fascinating to me. It's a large enough phenomenon that it's affecting the entire Internet and yet nobody seems to know yet who's actually doing it. Which isn't surprising, of course, it's hard to trace back to a source through all these proxies and it's probably a bunch of distinct groups anyways, but still!

Personally I have to wonder how much of it is "scrapers for training data" vs just tool-use LLMs. Even if you use chatgpt in thinking mode you can clearly see it searching and visiting a bunch of different websites to answer a question, presumably faster than any human would. That's got to add up. It's got me wondering why everyone seemingly discounts that as an option

inigyou 16 hours ago|||
Especially since if any crawler IP is in your country, you can get a subpoena to find out who it is.
tmp10423288442 20 hours ago|||
ChatGPT uses a distinct bot type for ChatGPT-initiated web search versus model training:

GPTBot → model improvement / training crawl

OAI-SearchBot → search index / ChatGPT Search

ChatGPT-User → fetch initiated by a user's ChatGPT interaction

OAI-AdsBot → advertising landing-page crawl

Symbiote 19 hours ago||||
Meta is an exception. They intentionally ignore robots.txt rules.

(No second chances, I blocked their whole IP range.)

inigyou 16 hours ago||
Everyone ignores robots.txt because every robots.txt blocks everyone.
nubinetwork 15 hours ago||
I allow Google, Bing, Yahoo, Kagi, and Apple on my personal blog... who else do I need to allow? Claude, OpenAI, Alibaba, and perplexity can go to hell.
inigyou 7 hours ago||
Think about incentives, what benefit does Anthropic obtain by going to hell?
voakbasda 20 hours ago|||
Why do we think that only “good guys” are training LLMs? I imagine organized crime is getting in on the game too.
lkbm 21 hours ago|||
Because they're crawling a billion webpages, only a tiny fraction of which can be git cloned, and configuring a special case just for that tiny fraction isn't worth the effort (of the crawlers).
DarmokTanagra 19 hours ago|||
vibe coded crawlers run by morally bankrupt trend chasers aren't going to be the most well engineered systems you come across.
acedTrex 21 hours ago||
Because the crawlers dont care, they are the internets parasites. Their creators care nothing for people or systems downstream of their greed.
Velocifyer 19 hours ago||
I would add cloudflare, but set it to cache only mode *without* the bot blocking features.
inigyou 16 hours ago|
No point, they are all unique requests.
wingworks 15 hours ago||
I think he means, get cloudflare to cache your content, so the traffic never reaches your servers to begin with. Assuming your sites content is cacheable by cloudflare. I agree it's a sad state of affairs if you have to rely on a 3rd party..

Maybe I'm not understanding how many requests at a time bots are sending to kernel.org (or how larger kernel is), but couldn't they have a local cache system too, where all it has to do it serve up dumb .html pages, needing next to no compute cycles.

tliltocatl 6 hours ago|||
It is server-rendered cgit pages, there are potentially quadrillions of unique. They are not cacheable.
inigyou 7 hours ago|||
Maybe you're a little hard of hearing. NO POINT CACHING, THEY ARE ALL UNIQUE REQUESTS.
thomasjudge 15 hours ago||
Are there lots of people doing development on mobile devices?
goldenarm 14 hours ago|
Many are on old laptops, which suffer the same way
forrestthewoods 17 hours ago||
> Shallow clones are awful. Run your own damn mirror if you're going to do something nasty like that.

TIL shallow clones are expensive. That's wild to me. It's supposed to be cheaper!

Backslasher 1 hour ago|
I thought they were expensive compared to fetches from established repos. TIL they're also expensive compared to full clones.
asah 17 hours ago||
Just slow unauthenticated traffic to non-essential stuff...
ChocolateGod 18 hours ago||
> phone gets uncomfortably warm as it's doing the number crunching

IMHO if I visit your website and it intentionally starts wasting my electricity for no other reason than to cost me money, with no opt in, it's hostile and malicious.

inigyou 16 hours ago|
You try hosting gitea in 2026. The only other option is taking the site offline.
arlattimore 17 hours ago||
In the case of kernel.org, why not make the unauthenticated version return only the latest kernel repo with no history (tiny number of URLs relatively speaking). If you want full kernel.org features, login.
kuschkufan 16 hours ago|
because they do not want to be twitter, reddit, facebook, ...
arlattimore 10 hours ago||
I'm not suggesting 'login' because facebook/twitter/etc, just as a mechanism to make the bot problem go away. They clearly want it to stop, they tried obvious methods but the AI platforms are circumventing it (deliberately) which is poor form.
kuschkufan 4 hours ago||
login or you will not get the full service is exactly what facebook and co are doing and what your suggested would amount to. the kernel.org stated quite clearly they want to remain a public service. which i applaud.
Kuinox 18 hours ago||
1.4 billions requests, 258 160 cpu hours. That's 1.5 requests per second ? I'm starting to believe, the issue is more that their software is not well optimized.
Skunkleton 15 hours ago|
You are forgetting that there are multiple multi-core servers.
Kuinox 15 hours ago||
It's incredibly slow for a single core, that's my reference point.
monegator 18 hours ago||
The thing that bothers me is why the fuck are they still scraping git.kernel.org or any other site that has already been scraped a million times before. Who would pay for that data?

Then again there is the conspiracy theory about cloudflare sponsoring the scrapers

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