Posted by greenlightning 17 hours ago
And I do have to agree. I can remember what ghastly furniture most shops used to have around here. There was a lot of what we call "cabin furniture" - which isn't made to look good, just be practical. (Well, some people like that look, but it is a bit...dull). Sure, there was more solid wood furniture, but guess what: that durability comes at a cost. Not only in terms of money, but also in terms of how easy it was to install and move.
And who buys furniture to pass it on to your kids? Your kids will be unburdening themselves of your old furniture before you are in the ground.
As for quality: I have owned some pricey designer furniture and I can't say that I'm always impressed with the quality. Yes, if you have a lot more money you can get really well built furniture. But IKEA is more often than not more than sufficient quality. (Also see their "hidden tags" campaign)
If I pay $5000 for a chair I have reason to expect a lot from it. And more often than not, pricey furniture doesn't actually deliver sufficient quality to be able to defend the price. (Collectible furniture is a whole different deal where you don't actually care all that much about quality, but more about it being an original piece).
For those of you who look down on IKEA furniture, I'd like to hear about what alternatives you think need mentioning. Especially for young people or people of modest means. And I'm not trying to make some clever rhetorical point here. I can't really think of any company that offers what they offer and comparable quality, looks and price here in Europe.
I have lived and worked around a fair chunk of the western world, establishing my local headquarters each time, building myself a home.
Long, long ago, I gave up on IKEA for everything except cookware and meatballs.
The reason?
I grew rapidly tired with seeing my living room everywhere. Move across the US, get invited over for dinner with new colleagues: oh, that's my old couch. Cross Germany for personal reasons, stay at a friends place - yeah, that's the kitchen I had in LA. Couch-surfing for a few months in Tokyo? Right, you get the point, same coffee table.
It just became, impersonal. I get it, mass furniture, for the masses, has its time and place and economies.
But as I got older and traveled a lot more out of my own box, I saw the repetition.
These days I go to what remains of those ghastly furniture shops, or the second hand markets, or the good flea markets (which don't accept IKEA stuff) .. and do my best to assemble my living devices from older, antique things.
Its not so easy.
But, it does accomplish one thing: it's mine. I won't see this setup anywhere else in the world, again.
>For those of you who look down on IKEA furniture, I'd like to hear about what alternatives you think need mentioning.
One should not overlook the value in spending the IKEA budget on tools and instead rolling ones' own ...
Everybody has my phone and my AirPods, or a model close to them, and that’s fine. I don’t need my AirPods to have a monogamous relationship with me.
Whereas most people don’t even consider attempting to personalise their couch or their car, so the desire for personalisation is satisfied by having a wide variety of options and colours prior to purchase. And also by having styles rapidly evolve so that many “trendy” and “anti-trendy” options are available at the time of purchase.
I wonder how many are like me.
And even in your example people spend a lot of time picking out cases or decorations for those items.
it's called personal style
Monotony and monoculture is not beautiful in some people's opinions. It seems that part of the definition of beauty is exception.
I think most of America’s options are the big warehouse furniture places or an ikea if it near by, they do delivery well.
Applying care and some wood glue during construction will yield a very solid product for years to come. And you have to have a little bit of taste and discretion when buying, as Ikea indeed has a wide range of quality among their items. Any item that has real wood will definitely last.
Some do it with grace, some of us with a bit of duct tape. Others, not at all.
The big wardrobes? They are the worst combination of impossibly heavy, awkward to disassemble and expensive to repurchase - best bet is to sell to the next occupant. On the other hand I have a solid table and chairs and they flat pack and reassemble perfectly. Same with bed frames. Shelving units go straight in the van. I wish the office desktops had metal threaded inserts for the legs instead of nylon, but otherwise also have moved several times and no real issue.
I couldn’t justify the cost of the furniture I really want. So off to IKEA I go!
And if you have a bit of skill at choosing and assembling IKEA furniture, then you can customise things on the cheap so at least it can look the way you want.
I don't think that the good stuff is popular, though, and it certainly isn't highlighted. When a durable (often secretly classic) design slips in, it doesn't last more than a few years. The price is usually too high and it's usually too heavy (for their audience, not for me.)
I've still got some really elementally designed and sturdy mounted shelves from them that I've carried from place to place, and installed and removed many times, for the past 30 years. They were probably discontinued 28 years ago; I couldn't find them in back catalogs and AI couldn't even help. I would have started to doubt that I got them from IKEA except that I have one set of components that is still in the packaging. It's simple steel and simple wood, and the wood (IKEA pretending like a plain flat wooden board is a product) is easily replaceable.
I have to be honest, I don't really value furniture that is heavy for the sake of it. I like hippy-futons, simple wooden tables with drawers and removable legs, transformer chairs*, etc. Being able to be disassembled and easily moved or stored is something I value, and being able to be flattened against a wall so the room can be temporarily reconfigured (a requirement for colonial US furniture) is ideal (double drop-leaf tables are wonderful.) Wood and steel are durable, and simple designs with standard hardware are easily reparable.
[*] https://www.core77.com/posts/58815/Different-Design-Approach...
But then I noticed they had a much better series called the Hemnes made with actual solid wood shelves and legs so you can route power cords and clean under them. Nice.
So instead of a bunch of Billy's for $70 each I ended up with a bunch of Hemnes' for $350 each. We'll see if it's worth it when they get delivered tomorrow.
Sadly, I don't know if it's worth trying to keep them at this point, because they replaced the previously decently durable wood veneer surfaces with glued on wood-pattern paper wraps (https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/ikea-furniture-inflation...). It's lead to me having a mix of old ones that still look like the day I put them together and new ones where all the corners are already visibly raveling from the wear of a single move.
For example, having young kids is not a good time to have a nice teak dining room table. (Or new wood floors for that matter) (or really anything nice you don’t want to hide in a locked box or room)
Also, pets, like a cat is wonderful. But without great diligence a more lower mid-tier couch will get clawed up the same as an ikea special. At least it may be more comfortable in the meantime.
I suspect wealth may be having your cake and eating it too—-you have fancy furniture that kids or pets wreck and you file that under dc.
All of it screams for automated materials reprocessing. One can only hope that the collision of robotics and AI will reduce the amount of landfill we create.
I look in antique/thrift/charity/freecycle/secondhand stores or groups. Where I live you can pick up a solid hardwood dresser for a few hundred bucks, because as you say - nobody wants their parents’ heirlooms. And lots of things can be had for free if you can hire a van to collect.
A month ago I got an entire king-size bed headboard (with storage), with cabinets on each side, and a bridge that connects the two cabinets across the top (and has lighting - also there is power in the headboard - needs a few upgrades though).
It was made in 1986 - solid wood.
I paid $1 CAD at an estate sale...
Now, the matching dresser with a tri-fold mirror was $175.
Why the difference? No one wanted the hassle of disassembly for the bed unit - but many felt they could probably flip the dresser.
Admittedly, I had to rent a U-Haul (say about $100 including gas) and rope in a family member to help with the move. (because, it had to be at least 800lbs of awkward parts...)
So, my all in was $276 plus some auction fees.
But - still cheaper, more durable and better looking than most "DIY assembly options".
OTOH - if we move again, this sucker stays with the house...
That's not the point. A large chunk of the price is the name on it and the marketing/image you associate yourself with. I thin, as engineers, that's hard to relate to. But that is how it works.
The price is not a reflection of quality, it's an outcome of a process to pick a price just enough people are willing to pay.
They'd laugh because they knew it wasn't about the accuracy.
And I'd get some satisfaction from the fact that they thought I didn't already know that.
I too own things where the price tag can't be justified by the objective merits of the product. So I do get it. But what they have in common is that these things generally are very good -- but you can get the same level of quality for less. I won't buy a low quality product with a hefty price tag.
Anyway, these days most people around me wear some kind of smart watch. And the funny bit is that the people who own expensive watches now have to choose: show off or practicality :-)
But more importantly, to me, at the time, it looked very cool in my tiny downtown apartment.
But for furniture where quality is more of a concern, and I'm willing to go up a rung on the price ladder, I've been very happy with both Crate & Barrel and Room & Board (noun & noun) here in the US. I have a C&B sectional sofa and quite a few pieces from R&B such as our king size bed, dresser, nightstands, kid's dresser, dining room sideboard cabinet.
They're not $5000 for a single chair range, but $5000 for bed + nightstands + dresser, though you can certainly get stuff for less.
But for "young people or people of modest means" I agree that you probably can't beat IKEA. There certainly are other cheap furniture retailers but you don't really know what you're getting and the style leaves a lot to be desired.
I have 2 IKEA beds. Quite happy with them!
Ditto dressers and nightstands.
I don't see why I'd get something more expensive.
Your experience is an extreme outlier.
Most people don't have parents with such old, valuable furniture.
Of those who do, most don't value it themselves.
Of those who do, most don't know how to take care of it.
The reality: Kids often live far away, in smaller houses/apartments. They're married and their spouses may not like the old furniture - they've already invested in the furniture they bought. Also, as people get old, they often need to downsize, so they have to get rid of much of the furniture while alive.
When you have 3+ kids, you can hope at least one of the kids will value it. These days, having 3 kids is an outlier.
For me, personally: I just don't like heavy furniture. I wouldn't want to figure out how to get it into my house, positioned where it's needed, and who's going to move it later if I decide to change the layout of my rooms? Pain, pain, pain.
I think you are confusing the perspective of the GP here.
Your perspective is that of the "kid". You like the parents' furniture and eventually want to use them and that's all fine.
But GP is describing the parent perspective which, they argue, shouldn't be to plan life such that the kids will be inheriting and using things later. That puts pressure on them to actually do instead of making their own choices. It's a subtle but important difference.
I see similar issues with people buying the neighboring lot and building a second house there such that eventually their kids can move in their with their family, once they have one. Some kids certainly so, and that's great. But think about your own life, would really have wanted to do that? Or grow up feeling that's expected of you? Most of my friends live half a day of travel away from where they grew up. Most of them would despise the idea of moving in next to their parents. Which doesn't mean they don't love them, just that they value their independence and made choices free from the constraint that it needs to be exactly there. (Besides, a couple usually consists of two people and they often didn't grow up in the same neighborhood.)
Generally, trying to plan for leaving inheritances (of substantial value) is overvalued. Modern society is striving to less dynasty building and I think that's a good thing. A lot of the poor/rich divide is rooted in that and governments should discourage it (through inheritance tax) rather than encouraging it (through e.g. lack of actions against housing costs which forces people to get a big inheritance to be able to live anywhere.)
Though I'm really getting too far from the topic as that was about furniture. :)
The best alternative to IKEA furniture is more expensive IKEA furniture.
I am not so sure about that. There are some product lines that are somewhat OK price/quality e.g. IVAR seems to be OK. But most IKEA products are too much optimized optimized on the cost side for my taste. The good days of "wooden furniture" is over.
That's just the excuse people tell themselves to justify a purchase.
Having said that, I also tend to not buy the particle board stuff.
I'd prefer it if IKEA offered more options (dimensionally) on their durable furnishings.
It made lack-of-aesthetics available to the masses: the same monopoly pre-selected designs for everybody, saturating every home.
I don't know about Europe, but a drive through most SFH residential areas in the US and you will score more usable furniture than you could ever need (skipping mattresses, fabric couches, etc...). At my last home, I ditched a lot of furniture by leaving it out front and never had to wait more than a day to have it gone. Failing that, there are a plethora of thrift shops with dirt cheap furniture (and other household goods). And if you want something more classy, go to antique shops loaded with cool oak furniture that is out of style so isn't worth much anymore.
Compare that to the obnoxious particle board Ikea crap that is the antithesis of buy it for life (and thus TCO is terrible).
Also, my 2 cents, but it is high time for a return to utilitarianism in furniture. Just getting a basic leather sofa without cup holders and other e-garbage is a huge pain. (Ironically, Ikea is ok for this.)
What is this special space time dilation wood you found? If its made of hardwood it will be a lot heavier. If it weights similarly and its solid wood is usually very soft and will live as long or less than IKEA furniture.
Interesting note... I recently disassembled an IKEA cupboard from 1999 made from MDF. It was definitely much heavier than their MDF products (eg. Metod kitchen cabinets) from today.
While perhaps IKEA sells some heavy wood furniture, most of it is fairly light.
One problem is - its sort of take it or leave it. You can't really make custom sized kitchen, you only compose of lego-like bricks of 20-40-60-80cm width and try to cover the inevitable gaps, but they are there. Fine if you don't have constraints, but we do - square-like shape with hard dimensions on all 4 sides. Sloped roof on one side. A lot of custom work and its not perfect, cannot be, its Ikea.
But we got big kitchen for... 11-12k altogether, including artificial stone worktop. Only due to the fact that their sub-contracting company (here in Switzerland!!) messed up first delivery, and white worktop with small black veins came as black with white veins (order came good to factory but out came reverse). Second delivery - each plate was mildly different coloring, so when put together, it looked very cheap and amateurish. Raised with Ikea, after some discussion they offered another one but couldn't guarantee color uniformity. I've chosen another look that would work in any case, but then they seemingly decided cut off that supplier and just returned all the money for worktop, while we kept our current one. Around 5k that was.
Also my massive pet peeve with their kitchen - you have to take their always crappy dishwashers, buying directly say Bosch products won't make them fit well with closing mechanism. I had to throw away perfectly functional Siemens dishwasher and buy their Bosch one. Sounds good, but never ever do Ikea rebrands work the same, offer same quality as originals, don't understand why but even previous time I did that, their Whirlpool-rebrand was crappy, every single device had big issues. That new top of the line (in Ikea) Bosch is massively subpar to older (5 years max) basic Siemens one.
This was a massive cost saving on a fully custom kitchen, and let us shift the budget to custom built stairs/bedroom cupboards elsewhere.
Ten years on, it all still looks as good as new.
Word! My desk at home is a very wide T-shaped desk made of three Kallax and two kitchen countertops: I share it with my wife and there are four monitors, two desktop PC towers (inside modded Kallax), two laptops, one shared printer, etc. and we've still got plenty of room on the desk.
Our chairs: we've each got an Aeron (mine is just out of warranty, 13 years old and the wife's got an used one, don't know how old but older than mine). That's quality stuff (it took me a few minutes to set up correctly: when you put your hands behind your head, an Aeron should lean back and then when you put your hands above the keyboard, it should move forward)... Fun fact: neighbor's kid sat in my chair (by himself, I wasn't offering him to try it) and exclamed "wow, that's a good chair!". My Aeron has already been to four countries with me. The "hit hurts my leg" is bullshit from people who haven't spend the 15 minutes needed to read the manual to set it up correctly.
This highly depends on the furniture. As an example, my dad built some custom pieces out of solid oak that are absolutely finding a place in my house after he's gone.
Now that you have published this online, police will visit you to remove the Billy!
Perhaps I am too pessimistic with German laws.
PS: It looks much better this way.
If it leaks slightly it could keep the gas/air at an explosive ratio within the box.
Best to just have it vent out into the room. then it's noticeable.
One high and one low one, this is so the gas does not build up in case of a leak.
Would highly suggest you get that sorted, your insurance might be void in case you do get a fire.
Now I will either get older recycled furniture for quality or pieces from IKEA for cost.
Why is it inside your apartment?
Does someone have to check the meter regularly?
Anyway, great job.
They are usually checked only once a year anyway.
I suspect the tragedy in Pennsylvania [1] was the catalyst. There are lots of potential issues with keeping these things indoors.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrimack_Valley_gas_explosion...
I read, IKEA first wanted to have them closed down, but then they realized, it does not matter why someone buys their stuff, as long as they buy it.
I like Ikea. I lived in so many countries, and it is an excellent place to buy furniture if you have to. But I consider it "throw away" furniture. Quality is okay or soso and it is unlikely to survive several moves.
If you can afford and have a place for long term. Buy better stuff. Used quality furniture, even antique, can be incredibly cheap.
We have furniture from IKEA that we bought at least five years ago that still functions great. A mattress we got from them is absolutely stellar with a memory foam topper; all of our guests love it. I think our coffee table is ten years old now.
However, everything goes to hell once you try to take it apart. This is why our mattresses are not on IKEA bed frames. Taking them apart has ALWAYS weakened them significantly. (We use Thuma Japanese joinery bed frames, which are AMAZING for moving and very high quality).
Which is kind of moot when you're talking about high-quality furniture, as they are usually single pieces as well.
Even the cheapest cardboard-filled IKEA units hold together much better when glued, and makes moving the units less stressful (no more "it's creaking / skewed when I pick it up").
IKEA has a wide range of products, some fall apart quickly, some last longer.
actually they had some metal garage shelves that I thought would be ok.
They turned out to be SUPER flimsy and wobbly.
I think they optimize for shipping weight, which means 'solid' suffers.
I highly doubt this will happen with ikea furniture. But thats the tradeoff for cheaper and affordable stuff i guess.
I have several pieces that have survived 3-4 moves. The trick is when assembling, use wood glue with any dowels. On their own, these dowels only have friction to hold them in place, and over time, the surface of the area where they are inserted compresses, reducing friction. Hence you get that typical side to side sway. The glue mitigates this problem.
Obviously beds and huge bookshelves might need to come apart again, so use your best judgement. But chairs, dressers, end-tables, etc. are completely worth it.
That said, moving some of this flat pack furniture has been a mixed bag. Some move well, some don't.
I did have a wall unit, a $99 hardware store particle board piece assembled with big screws and those interesting, round cam fasteners. It survived three separate moves, including one where it flew out the back of my pickup truck onto asphalt (thankfully in a gas station, vs the freeway I was about to get on). Corner got dinged, door flew off, but it survived!
But I've had other pieces that assemble and are rigid, when torqued around through the moving process start to come undone. The particle board and fasteners are designed for loads only in specific directions and tend to not do well, and fail, outside of those.
same.
> and at no point have I ever considered disassembling them
That is wise. I don't claim disassembling it for move was a good idea, but it compressed my stuff into a compact car.
Consider also that some of their beds don't fit through a doorway built (esp if doorway is not code width) so some level of disassembly may be required for mere room-to-room moving.
I'm only calling out a tradeoff that may or may not apply. Not everyone is you and me.
> I don't think IKEA really even advertises their stuff to be a
The whole point of this thread (this site?) is repurposing outside of creator intent.
Really liked this garden sink for barbecuing: https://ikeahackers.net/2017/06/outdoor-sink-perfect-summer-...
I think really the only IKEA product that has given me issues is the MARKUS chair, and more specifically, the gas spring leaking. Apart from that, I think everything is more or less functional? Even the five-euro LACK coffee table is still fine, even if it has signs of use on it. I've also bought used IKEA shelves and they're still holding up fine.
IKEA is ideal for a certain stage of your life. It's ideal for optimizing vertical space. It's largely function over form. It looks like middle school classroom furniture. And when junior writes on it w/ a sharpie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
When you have the space for a separate dining room, agreed that used antiques are comparable in price.
I wouldn't touch their couches rich or poor though; they're painful.
I bought some metal shelves and they wobble like they are made of tinfoil. never again.
(I do like my old idasen desk)
So I bought a workbench at home depot recently and LOVE it. Heavy duty where ikea isn't.
It is a wheeled workbench with a wooden top, height-adjustable with a crank, with two full length/depth shallow ball-bearing tool drawers.
search for "husky 52 x 24 2-drawer workbench"
I built a computer on it - wonderful. I put all the tools in one shallow drawers, and the screws/parts in the other drawer and it was smooth sailing.
I do have some ikea bedroom stuff. If I could hack it, I would love to replace the drawer slides with exact fit full-extension and/or soft-close slides.
I built my current desk from some butcher block counter tops and shelfs and 4x4's. I don't think it cost me all that much more from what I could have done from IKEA and the quality is astronomically better.
If you're already dealing with saws and drills to hack the IKEA stuff, you really only need to toss is a sander and maybe a router and you can just work with real wood.
Then put it on some IKEA drawer blocks, because I want drawers, but I'm not equipped to build those in any reasonable timeframe.
Cutting down a desk top is something you can do with sawhorses and some good weather. More intricate things need an actual workshop for good results.
I'd be hesitant to recommend a novice to pursue a glue-up/planing project if they weren't already interested in woodworking.
Like a Kallax, unless you're a real wizard you couldn't cobble one of those together without a lot of skill.
How it's better than that: you can not only rotate them 90 degrees, but you also move the dividers. Now due to how their built, it may not be the sturdiest thing to do but you definitinely can turn a 2x 32 cm into a 1x40cm and 1x24cm. I do that for my PC tower (and the wife's): it's too tall to fit in 32 cm, but then I don't want to waste space. I simply make new holes for dowels (once again, YMMV but I do it since years) and move a divider up.
Also their particleboard and cardboard furniture should be banned. Furniture should not dissolve when a drink gets spilled on it.
Take two drawer units, and instead of putting the tops on them they were supplied with, put a slab of desktop across both of them with a gap between and you’ve got yourself a desk.
Definitely. My go-to is three units (I explained it in another comment too): two horizontal along the back wall and the third one in the middle, perpendicular to the wall. Then I put two kitchen countertops: that's now an ultra bad ass T-shaped desk for me and the wife. Plenty of room for monitors, laptops, the printer, physical notebooks, even plants (!) etc.
As cheap as Ikea was, being in London in my 20s just as Freecycle started, meant we ended up with a lot 'vintage' furniture for free or next to nothing - some we still have now.