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Posted by vinnyglennon 1 day ago

Cheap GPS jammers are filling the world with navigation dead zones(www.wsj.com)
https://archive.is/zUA3D
99 points | 101 commentspage 2
stefan_ 10 hours ago|
The systems jamming in Hormuz and Ukraine aren't exactly cheap and low powered, nor are those used by the US military in one of their many jamming exercises every year. Cheap GPS jammers fit in a cigarette lighter and are used by truckers who don't want their boss snooping on them, but they don't quite threaten aviation.

That aside, you don't need to give up on GPS just yet. As expensive as airplanes are, there is no reason not to have at least 8 element CRPA receivers in them. Mostly a military niche product in the past they are rapidly proliferating, and most fuselages make for a great ground plane.

bigfatkitten 3 hours ago|
> Cheap GPS jammers fit in a cigarette lighter and are used by truckers who don't want their boss snooping on them, but they don't quite threaten aviation.

They absolutely do threaten air and maritime navigation, because those trucks drive in and near ports and airports.

https://insidegnss.com/fcc-fines-operator-of-gps-jammer-that...

https://ilwulocal94.org/news/2024/CSA%2001-24%20GPS%20Jammin...

madiling 1 day ago||
https://archive.is/zUA3D
fangspire 10 hours ago||
Starlink can be uses as GPS. Good luck jamming 20 thousand satellites.
left-struck 2 hours ago||
First of all, starlink has been jammed in conflict zones.

Secondly, the number of satellites doesn’t really matter, the jamming happens at the end user level not at the satellite.

Finally, where are you getting that 20k number from? It’s not like there’s 20k starlink satellites in LOS to your station at all times. The earth will be obscuring many of those, they are below your feet on the other side of the planet.

dghlsakjg 3 hours ago|||
Do they have atomic clocks on board?

I was under the impression that Starlink needs GPS for initial acquisition.

nomel 9 hours ago|||
That's near orders of magnitude more than reality. The only number that matters is the number of satellites that are in communication line of site. A satellite on the other side of the world doesn't help you.
m463 4 hours ago||
I wonder how many are in view?

gps is 31 total satellites 12,000 miles up

starlink is 10,000 satellites at ~ 300 miles. (and what orbit?)

EDIT: I found this:

-- starlink:

"In any given place there are 3-4 Starlink satellites visible at a time"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42445512 :)

in december 2024, there were 4,000 starlink satellites in orbit

so starlink is ~ 8 at all times?

-- GPS:

This 24-slot arrangement ensures users can view at least four satellites from virtually any point on the planet.

- https://www.gps.gov/space-segment

BenjiWiebe 2 hours ago||
Remember there's also BeiDou, Galileo, and GLONASS as well.

Our RTK base station (a Ublox ZED-F9P receiver, with a cheap patch antenna on the roof) can currently see 45 GNSS satellites.

inemesitaffia 9 hours ago||
They've removed the in-built PNT service
juliusceasar 1 day ago||
Those cheap GPS jammers, which sites should I avoid to not buy them by accident?
vablings 10 hours ago||
It's not rocket science to make a GPS jammer. GPS Spoofing is more complex and causes way more damage or chaos. I would seriously avoid touching this subject whatsoever this is the kind of thing that will have the FBI and FCC so far up your ass you will feel it in the back of your eyeballs. On the off chance the feds don't catch you and you cause a serious accident you will be charged with 1st degree murder of how many people were on the aircraft that crashed along with a litany of other federal offences meaning life without parole is basically a guarantee.
michaelmrose 11 hours ago||
[dead]
djoldman 11 hours ago|
No worries in the long run; similar to the "energy crisis," new inventions and technology will mitigate the issue:

Quantum Compass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_compass

Also see: https://www.sandboxaq.com/post/sandboxaq-and-acubed-achieve-...

vablings 10 hours ago||
The magnetic approach is very interesting. I can't imagine it would ever be reliable enough for a primary instrument since its susceptible to solar weather and certain regions with more geological activity.
andrehacker 11 hours ago|||
Also see https://q-ctrl.com/ironstone-opal
Hizonner 10 hours ago||
I'm sorry, but a multi-kilogram (at a guess), five-figure-priced (at a conservative guess) device with kilometer-scale error (per their actual press release) is not a substitute for a GPS.

And you probably can't improve on many of those specs no matter how much "inventing" you do. There's just not that much information in magnetic fields, especially if you don't spend an infeasible amount of money on keeping maps up to date. You're probably jammable, too.

The same applies to the gravitational hacks, and the mapping issue applies even to visual navigation.

Those guesses, by the way, are because not only is AQNav's "data sheet" worthless fluff, but they seem to be allergic to letting anybody even see a picture of the product. Which makes me doubt that they actually have what a normal person would think of as a "product" to begin with.

monster_truck 1 hour ago|||
Datasheets that look like that are a pretty strong indicator you're dealing with something that is giga export controlled, not as in "can only go to some countries, you have to declare it and theres a LOT of paperwork", more "attempting to, or even making plans about trying to leave the country with one is a pile of federal crimes"

Virtually anything navigational that cannot be easily or reliably jammed falls into this category far before meeting any of the accuracy/drift requirements.

djoldman 9 hours ago||||
No need to be sorry.

My "no worries" comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Who knows how far the tech will go or how cheap it will get.