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Posted by thread_id 1 day ago

GPS glitched across the US by as much as 33 feet(www.sciencealert.com)
151 points | 92 commentspage 2
aaron695 8 hours ago|
[dead]
Insimwytim 10 hours ago||
TL;DR:

1. Not today. November 2025. They don't make it clear.

1.1. One would expect that to be put in the title, when the article is written almost a year after that.

1.2. No, the article doesn't state that in the first paragraph. Posting in it full seem to be the only way to fend off lazy comments:

  In November 2025, Earth was buffeted by several massive eruptions of solar material that slammed into the magnetosphere.
That's it - the whole paragraph. Several paragraphs later - GPS first mentioned. No clear links between dates stated.

2. It is unclear what is the source of the claim.

UPD: Commenter below found the source, but TFA doesn't make a good job of presenting that as a source of the 33 feet glitch claim, but rather posts another citation from it.

They should've just quote this and be done with it:

  During the storm main phase, an east–west elongated band of intense auroral brightness expanded equatorward, producing a horizontally extended strip of strong density gradients that favored the development of small-scale irregularities. These small-scale irregularities triggered pronounced amplitude scintillations (S4 > 0.5) and caused significant positioning errors exceeding 10 m—large enough to disrupt GNSS-dependent applications across CONUS for hours, particularly precision agriculture and autonomous transportation industries. [1]
3. Navigation issues happened before, they state it right there. They were more disruptive as well.

4. The author has articles all over the topics. Everything is sensationalized.

5. Every presented link seem to have this awful Cloudflare js challenge.

Bad article overall.

P.S. Response to the false claim below - no, there's nothing about GPS in "the first 3 words of the article".

[1] https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2026GL12...

kbelder 8 hours ago||
>P.S. A separate comment would be too much to respond to the false claim below - no, there's nothing about GPS in "the first 3 words of the article".

He's talking about your first (incorrect) claim. The article begins "In November 2025"

nomel 8 hours ago|||
> 2. It is unclear what is the source of the claim.

7th paragraph of the article states the source, and contains a link to research paper where they go into great detail.

Elidrake24 9 hours ago||
> Not today. November 2025. They don't make it clear.

My brother in christ it's the first 3 words of the article.

gerdesj 6 hours ago||
Their first line is TL;DR!
ck2 10 hours ago|
not just space weather, I am pretty sure the atmosphere is being disturbed by toxic human activity both by accident and on purpose

I've run outside every morning for decades and used Garmin with GPS since 2015, I've never had so much trouble

Garmins finally supports dual-band (L1+L5) and BeiDou on newest models but it's still not enough to compensate, I have to use a Stryd footpod to guarantee accurate distances/speed

btw BeiDou GPS blows away US GPS for number of sats and precision but despite Russia's GPS being legal in US, technically BeiDou is not

* https://warontherocks.com/a-signal-point-of-failure-integrat...

* https://payloadspace.com/gps-faces-growing-competition-from-...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeiDou#GPS_vs._BeiDou_Capabili...

z2 10 hours ago||
For resiliency reasons alone, it's been proposed to allow (stop software-disabling) BeiDou in the US, but the last time this was brought up, the administration ran out of time. It's a shame, because when there is precise coverage, it enables things like lane-level city navigation.

https://warontherocks.com/a-signal-point-of-failure-integrat...

ck2 9 hours ago||
yup that was my first link

but of course this administration is never going allow China-anything like low cost electric cars even if it means saving people a fortune in gas

so hopefully in 2029 it can be looked at again

or maybe Dems will also get the Senate too and can be petitioned if they run out of corruption investigations before 2029

it is critical to explain to everyone who isn't technical that GPS is "read only" and no data is being sent to China via BeiDou (just like it's not sent to Russia's Glonass) because that apparently is some kind of weird misunderstanding

on that same note if they somehow made Starlink into a lower resolution GPS backup I'd even trust that too despite personally being anti-Musk everything

z2 5 hours ago|||
Whoops I don't know how I missed that in your links!

The weird part to me is that Glonass was not approved either, yet it's as openly as allowed as Galileo that went through a tedious FCC approval process that was invented later. Grandfathered or not, we're clearly not in a worse place using Russian tech for the last 15 years.

bigfudge 7 hours ago|||
Read only or not, relying on Chinese or Russian gps data for increased accuracy even in civilian increases dependency no? That seems like a bad idea to me. I’ve thought for about 20 years that increasing our dependence on anti democratic regimes was a risk, no matter what the benefits for global development etc. It’s not isolationist to want to only rely on your friends and not enemies. (Which is why Europe needs to disentangle itself from the US as fast as possible).
blululu 2 hours ago|||
If you are relying on it without a graceful fall back then it would be a problem. If you take it as a boost on top of existing capabilities then it is a pure win. In practice it can be hard to parse the two scenarios. People get used to thinking that something is available and it turns out that it was always leverage against them.
z2 5 hours ago|||
It decreases dependency on GPS and thus it decreases risk because if there's an attack on a GPS system by an adversary, it's likely that they will not be attacking their own system at the same time. I'd rather have my enemy's open source, perfectly functional clock in my back pocket than be without the time. Enjoying that the competing clock has a sub second display is optional.
arijun 9 hours ago|||
> BeiDou GPS blows away US GPS for number of sats and precision

Both BeiDou and GPS are supposed to be limited to 10m precision for civilians.

But, going down a rabbit hole, I found that BeiDou is way more accurate than 10m--3.6m and 2.6m outside and inside the Asia-Pacific region, respectively [1]. And that's with the most simple algorithm. It goes down to ~2.5m using dual-frequencies to account for atmospheric error.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-12012-y

myself248 9 hours ago|||
> Both BeiDou and GPS are supposed to be limited to 10m precision for civilians.

Maybe in 1998, but Selective Availability was turned off in 2000, and here in the modern era: https://rtklibexplorer.wordpress.com/2024/04/28/dual-frequen...

arijun 8 hours ago||
Oh interesting, I think I conflated two things; Selective Availability and the military-only bands on GPS. While it's true that access to the military band could improve accuracy with dual-band receivers, consumer devices can use dual-band as well (as your link shows), since there are multiple unencrypted bands from navigation satellites nowadays.

I am not sure how to interpret your link, though. It doesn't measure accuracy on it's own, and doesn't include a number for precision between the two units.

myself248 4 hours ago|||
There are a couple of points:

The L1 signal had selective availability in the 90s, and it no longer does. SA had the real-world accuracy around 30m in practice; the "up to" 100m rarely happened. Without SA, plain L1 with good skyview (low DOP) gets you around 10m, or down under 5m if WAAS is having a good day.

Availability of multiple civilian bands, and cost-effective dual-band receivers, allows an ionosphere-free (no need for WAAS) solution in the 1-2m range, with a single receiver.

Ubiquity of internet connections makes it trivial to apply RTK correction data without having to set up your own base station, and/or, availability of affordable medium-range data radios makes it easy to set up your own base station. In either case, it's easier to run RTK than ever before, and dual-band RTK gets you down into the low centimeters, limited mostly by how accurately your base station was surveyed-in.

And none of that touches the military signals.

hylaride 8 hours ago|||
My understanding is that the encrypted military-level GPS is much more robust against jamming and spoofing. There's probably a lot of capabilities we don't know that's classified, too.
IndySun 8 hours ago|||
Called M-Code.

Has a fascinating history.

https://odimpact.org/case-united-states-opening-gps-data-for...

entrope 3 hours ago||
M-Code is a new encrypted signal that is not fully operational yet. OCX was supposed to enable it.

GPS has always had the P(Y) code, which is an encrypted signal, at a higher chip rate than the C/A code that has been broadcast on L1 forever. The P(Y) code has its own interesting history of (semi-)codeless processing. If the US military is lucky, the history books will close on that by 2030: https://www.gps.gov/codelesssemi-codeless-gps-access-commitm... . (Currently, 21 GPS satellites broadcast L5.)

pkaye 7 hours ago||||
I think the new US GPS satellites have ability to do a spot beam of increased strength in a region of interest.
arijun 8 hours ago|||
That is my understanding as well. But having another band allows for error correction as a side benefit.
rcxdude 5 hours ago|||
With a base station in a known position you can get to cm resolution with somewhat pricey but decidedly hobbyist-accessible gear: https://www.sparkfun.com/sparkfun-gps-rtk-sma-breakout-zed-f...
arijun 9 hours ago|||
It seems that all the device manufacturers (they mention Apple, Samsung, and Google) are using BeiDou anyway. I don't know if that includes Garmin watches, though.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-agency-probes-risks-fo...

rzzzt 8 hours ago||
AGPS also helps if you have cell towers nearby.
askvictor 5 hours ago||
This is only to make getting a fix faster - A-GPS downloads the almanac data via the internet (fast, but needs internet) instead of directly from the GPS satellites (slow but works everywhere). It doesn't make it any more accurate.