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Posted by yubblegum 3 days ago

Babylonian Lamb Stew with Beets (1750–1730 BCE)(babylonian-collection.yale.edu)
145 points | 114 commentspage 2
PeterHolzwarth 10 hours ago|
What's enlightening is how astonishingly little salt is used, by our standards.
peri-cl 9 hours ago|
The ingredient ratios are the Yale researchers' interpretation—they're not from the source text,

https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/ancient-mesopota...

> "Like most premodern cooking manuals, the Babylonian recipes rarely list the quantities of each ingredient, and so basic experimentation is needed to determine viable proportions for the assembly of a dough or the salting of a stew. The “experimental” approach likewise offers answers to questions that can only be addressed through trial and error. For example, many of the identifications of herbs proposed by modern scholars are based mainly on medical compendia, and some of the plants thus identified can produce an extremely bitter or perhaps pungent taste when used in food."

Here's the recipes as literally translated (I used tesseract to OCR):

> "Unwinding. Meat is not used. You prepare water. You add fat. (You add) kurrat, cilantro, salt as desired, leek, garlic. You pound up dried sourdough, you sift (it) and you scatter (it) over the pot before removing it."

> "Stew of lamb. Meat is used. You prepare water. You add fat. You add fine-grained salt, dried barley cakes, onion, Persian shallot, and milk. [You crush] (and add) leek and garlic."

> "Elamite broth. Meat is not used. You prepare water. You add fat. Dill, kurrat, cilantro, leek, and garlic bound with blood, a corresponding amount of sour milk, and (more) garlic. The (original) name (of this dish) is Zukanda."

> "Tuh’u. Leg meat is used. You prepare water. You add fat. You sear. You fold in salt, beer, onion, arugula, cilantro, Persian shallot, cumin, and red’ beet, and [you crush] leek and garlic. You sprinkle coriander on top. [You add] kurrat and fresh cilantro."

lorenzohess 5 hours ago||
Bears,Beets
culi 4 hours ago|
Babylon Galactica
lettergram 9 hours ago||
If you like this, you may like the "Tasting History" YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/@TastingHistory

He basically covers a different historic dish every week ranging from the oldest recorded dishes to cafeteria food from 1990; or what they served on the Titanic, etc.

It's a great channel, and covers history well.

mermadicsolutio 10 hours ago||
Honestly the recipe sounds like adding beets to a regular lamb stew recipe. If I havent watch this video and saw the dish, I would think some fancy restaurant is trying to be "innovative"
analog8374 15 hours ago||
I dislike lamb but the rest sounds great. Maybe I could sub beef.
dyauspitr 9 hours ago||
I mean, this had to be a dish for royalty or something right? How on earth that they have all of those fresh and dried ingredients on hand 4000 years ago.
tensor 7 hours ago|||
No, it's common. People today have no idea how truly poor they eat. Modern fast food is essentially fake food paste.
globular-toast 3 hours ago||
Which is a shame because you can eat so well today you can easily skip the dead animal carcass. They couldn't really do that back then in many places with short growing seasons.
dyauspitr 2 hours ago|||
Why would you skip the dead animal? That is by far the best part of every meal.

PS don’t jump into the whole animal cruelty spiel. I’m aware and I agree, it’s just that I don’t care. Vegetarian food, aside from maybe the narrow slice with how the Indians prepare it, is completely unsatisfying and I’m OK with animals suffering as long as I can continue to have meat because it’s just so delicious. That being said, I would eagerly switch to lab grown meat if they can do it correctly.

Vegan food on the other hand is brain dead food. I mean that literally and metaphorically. Anecdotally every vegan I’ve met seems nutritionally deficient and slow. They also go out of their way to eat food aping meat and that stuff turns out to be the most chemically processed and unhealthy stuff you could possibly imagine.

stackghost 2 hours ago|||
Oh good, the vegans are here to leave smug comments
ardit33 5 hours ago|||
2/3rds of those herbs grow in the garden of my home as just weed (this in Albania), including mint, cilantro, origano and more.

While some have to be cultivated, a lot these herbs just grow as weeds in the Mediterranean area.

sophacles 7 hours ago||
Most of them seem like a pretty common kitchen garden to me.

And all of the plants are native to that area, or close enough that people who had been farming for a few thousand years at that point would have brought them from neighboring lands to use.

thataccount 3 days ago|
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tom_ 16 hours ago||
Curious indeed that the Yale Babylonian Collection should, out of all the possible options, choose the cooking of Ancient Babylon. I wonder what we should read into this. I have some theories, but it might be dangerous for me even to mention that I have them.
yubblegum 3 days ago||
Cradle of civilization is not an odd culture. Babylon, meaning Gate of God, is one of the more profoundly influential urban civilizational clusters in human history.
thataccount 3 days ago||
[flagged]
ahazred8ta 3 days ago|||
To an archeologist, 'civilization' refers to builders of walled cities inhabited by non-farmers with complex social sructure, division of labor, and usually some form of taxation. Highly moral hunter gatherers living in mud huts are not a 'civilization' in this context. Now you know.
thataccount 3 days ago||
[flagged]
krapp 3 days ago||
The vast majority of Africans aren't hunter-gatherers living in mud huts. They have actual cities with highways and skyscrapers and everything.
thataccount 3 days ago||
I'm not arguing for what is a majority. I'm talking about the large portions of Africa that still live in a hunter-gatherer situations in mud huts.
ahazred8ta 3 days ago|||
Villages in New Guinea, the Amazon, etc, the word you're looking for is 'cultures'.

Cultures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Pottery_culture & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Civilizations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Great_Zimbabwe & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilisation & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztecs

The reason we're talking about the recipe is because it's one of the oldest recorded recipes, which is because they had writing.

thataccount 2 days ago||
>'cultures'.

That's interesting, because I don't really think of a "culture" as smaller than a "civilization". I think of a culture being a necessary thread that runs through a civilization and without which there are no civilizations.

TFNA 13 hours ago||||
Traveling overland across Africa will swiftly disabuse you of the notion that hunter/gatherer lifestyles make up any "large portion" of the continent's population. It would hardly even be feasible in the face of massive deforestation and population boom.
krapp 3 days ago|||
Africa comprises an entire continent. There are not large portions of it (or "large swaths") where people still live as hunter-gatherers living in mud huts, for any reasonable definition of "large portion."
jfjdkdkdkd 16 hours ago|||
its sad that your ideology allows you to tell lies without an oz of shame.
rsynnott 1 hour ago||
… Eh? Even by the most generous possible definitions (including people who are primarily hunter gatherer but interact with the local economy to some extent), there are only on the order of tens of thousands of hunter gatherers today, worldwide.

As for mud huts, still commonly used in some places; there’s nothing particularly wrong with mud/earth construction if it works in your local climate.

thataccount 2 days ago|||
> for any reasonable definition of "large portion."

I'm sure those relatively voiceless cultures will appreciate your minimization of their contribution to the peoples of Africa.

krapp 2 days ago||
You're the one who was claiming most Africans were hut-dwelling hunter-gatherers earlier. I'm not the one minimizing anything or anyone, just stop it.
thataccount 2 days ago||
Uh, what? I'm not sure where you are pulling that accusation from. I said very succinctly that I was not talking about what was the majority in Africa. I think you are confused.
BugsJustFindMe 16 hours ago|||
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