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Posted by chmaynard 14 hours ago

The revolt of the reader(bcantrill.dtrace.org)
385 points | 157 commentspage 4
Julesman 9 hours ago|
AI detection should NEVER be used in an educational setting where the only acceptable false positive rate is 0%. That being a rate that which will never be achieved.
esjeon 8 hours ago|
Yeah, even Pangram is a bit problematic here. It has been notoriously fragile. Minor edits can flip scores from 100%-human to 100%-AI, because Pangram is crazy sensitive to local and surfacial features of text. Simple consulting with LLMs for word choices can result in 100%-AI score. Insane.
KPGv2 9 hours ago||
> To those who read broadly, the hand of the LLM is so clear it’s as if the writer’s intellectual fly is open

I dunno, man, according to Hardcover, I've read 76 fiction books this year, and I can't tell. All the "AI tells" fail the vibe check. I'm a writer and I get flagged by many of them.

And according to PhD linguists with expertise in the field, most AI tells are just the equivalent of old wives' tales. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgKY9AlybA

I vaguely recall that researchers were able to train people to tell, but only for a minority language that AIs likely aren't particularly good at mimicking, and after training.

This whole thing reminds me of how "you can recognize a vegan because they'll tell you." There, you have a ton of false negatives (i.e., since you aren't polling people to find out if they're vegan, you're only flagging the obvious vegans and missing all the regular people who happen to be vegan).

Except here, it's a bunch of false positives and negatives I bet. You don't really have a way of knowing, so you're accusing some people (without complete accuracy) and missing some people (without complete accuracy). But you have no way of knowing, so you're just like "hell yeah, my vibes tell me I'm right."

Research and experts disagree.

rcxdude 8 hours ago|
I think anyone claiming 100% accuracy is wrong, but the recent Claude models, for example, have a writing style that is sufficiently distinct that claiming people can't recognize it is like claiming you can't recognize the styles of particular famous authors. Yes, particular elements of their writing are going to be used by others, and it's possible to disguise their style or emulate it deliberately, but it's pretty hard to accidentally write like them.
kome 2 hours ago||
so, yet another post encouraging the use of AI tools lol... great. that's the literal meaning of the post.
elianwrites 5 hours ago||
[flagged]
vladsiu 5 hours ago||
[dead]
baddash 8 hours ago||
is this... an ad
CharlesW 12 hours ago||
> Indeed, Pangram has become important to so many of us that I was thrilled when Pangram Labs co-founder and CEO Max Spero joined us recently on Oxide and Friends.

Is obvious AI-assisted writing better or worse than an obvious PR quid pro quo and/or cross-promotion?

bcantrill 11 hours ago|
This is (obviously?) false, but considering how well-capitalized we are at the moment, you do have me wondering what a quid pro quo would be for; perhaps in this fictional universe Pangram has lucked into some of the PCIe clock buffers that we've been scrambling to secure enough of?
CharlesW 11 hours ago||
By "quid pro quo" I wasn't suggesting that Pangram's PR people's podcast placement was pay-for-play, just that they traded access for your positioning of their tech and their exec in your content marketing efforts.

That's pretty normal, but the point is that a blog post which is 35% Pangram promotion may not actually be less annoying than the use of AI to help write blog posts.

mplanchard 11 hours ago|||
It is less annoying, at least to me. I can read a semi-promotional post. I just bounce right off LLM writing
bcantrill 11 hours ago|||
Yeah, fair -- and definitely not: I am earnestly just a fan of what they built (and I also think it's really important as a way of getting a check against rampant LLM use).
CharlesW 11 hours ago||
Your love shines through! I'll work on turning down my "assume the worst" knob, thank you.
singpolyma3 10 hours ago||
The idea that readers "can tell" remains laughable. Readers routinely claim they "can tell" on things that turn out to be entirely hand authored.

If you want to read something good, read a good book.

daze42 7 hours ago||
I agree. Most human-generated content I've run across on the internet over the past couple decades has been fairly low quality and, to be honest, most of the self-admitted LLM-generated content is higher quality. I'm continually surprised that so many consider any content written by humans to automatically be more worth their time to read.

I'm much more interested in the content itself than the author that wrote it.

wmf 9 hours ago||
I don't want to read human slop either.
CuriouslyC 7 hours ago||
Ending with a spin on "if you didn't bother to write it why should people bother to read it." Way to rail on cliche repetitive slop, with more cliched slop. Will the irony never cease.
rdiddly 5 hours ago|
This reader revolted after the second unnecessary (and exclaimed!) parenthetical. You can't please some people.
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