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Posted by mdp2021 21 hours ago

Asahi Linux on M3(asahilinux.org)
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Asahi-Linux-Official-M3
489 points | 300 commentspage 3
xrd 17 hours ago|
I'm not sure I understand the target user for Asahi.

Is this someone that only wants to run Linux and wants to use their GPU on Linux? Seems like this is not the case, yet.

Or, is this for someone that wants to dual boot and use Linux sometimes, and then reboot into MacOS when they want to use the GPU?

bjackman 17 hours ago||
I don't think it makes much sense to expect such a cohesive/specific philosophy from an open source project like this.

The goal is "Linux on Mac". In a commercial product, specific details of what gets built usually stem from a more detailed vision that can be articulated as one. In open source projects those details are determined by what individual contributors are motivated to work on.

That doesn't means a cohesive vision can't emerge, there might be one for Asahi actually. But I think the default position is that it's kinda just a mob of people doing what they each feel like doing.

nottorp 16 hours ago||
I don't think it matters that Asashi is a generation or three behind, because the moment you really need it is when Apple stops updating the OS for your hardware.

When M1 drops out of support I bet Asashi for the M1 machines will be pretty polished.

zer0zzz 6 hours ago||
Another thing is, the M1 and later hardware is still years later some of the best arm64 hardware youre going to find. Combine that with the really affordable prices you can find on the used market and Linux arm64 on this kind of great hardware at a low price is quite appealing.
brundolf 17 hours ago|||
Asahi on previous M-series chips supports the GPU, they just don't support it on M3 yet (they have to reverse-engineer the GPU to write the driver)

More info: https://alyssarosenzweig.ca/blog/asahi-gpu-part-n.html

xrd 17 hours ago||
Oh, so an M2 will support GPU usage? Can you run CoreML and unsloth models in the same way you would use them on regular MacOS? Are there benefits to using Linux/Asahi for running models on Apple hardware?
simcop2387 16 hours ago|||
You wouldnt be using coreml since thats apples software, but likely vulkan versions of llama.cpp or pytorch or what have you. How well that works at the moment i dont know
brundolf 16 hours ago|||
To my understanding the M1 and M2 have very functional GPU drivers. I don't know about the other specifics you asked
cfstras 13 hours ago|||
It‘s going to be a godsend for people with M1 macs when Apple or App vendors decide to drop support for them.

The hardware is super capable and will make a great fileserver, TV box or HomeAssistant instance once I‘m done using it as daily driver.

Similarly, because of distros like Fedora and Ubuntu, I can keep using a 15y old Samsung notebook with a modern firefox, whereas Windows 8 already broke Samsung‘s display brightness driver and thermal management, and 10&11 are entirely unusable.

herrkanin 17 hours ago|||
I have an M2 Macbook Air that i sometimes boot into Asahi to play Steam games that doesn't work natively on mac. It works unreasonably well given that there is something like five different translation layers to make it work!
dylanger 3 hours ago|||
I have an M2 Macbook Air that I love, it's the best machine to read news from and access other machines over SSH, I only use macOS to use rekordbox, 99% of the time I'm booting into AsahiLinux
menno-sh 16 hours ago||||
Huh, I thought Asahi would still be too unpolished on M2 to play games reliably. Could you elaborate on your setup a little? What kind of games do you play? What is performance like? Is it really better than Crossover for example?
xrd 17 hours ago|||
Steam is incredible on Linux. I'm amazed my kids can play so many games using proton on Ubuntu.

So, if there are five translation layers, why not run a Linux VM using UTM and play there? Is there a technical reason that does not work?

teaearlgraycold 17 hours ago||
It’s cooler to run Linux on bare metal
Danox 8 hours ago|||
They are envious towards Apple Silicon and think Apple owes them something once again take the ball by the horns and build an Arm processor with a fork of Linux running on it. If three former engineers from Apple can start a company called Nuvia it can be done.
GeekyBear 17 hours ago|||
> I'm not sure I understand the target user for Asahi.

If you want to run bare metal Linux on Apple's hardware (instead of running it in a virtual machine) you are the target audience.

eikenberry 16 hours ago|||
I think it is more the technical challenge of doing it that drives development than any target users.
kristianp 15 hours ago|||
Are you talking about using a thunderbolt dock and GPU? I doubt that's a use case high in the developers minds. I'm curious though, I wonder if the open source NVIDIA driver can be built for it.
tiffanyh 17 hours ago|||
Why does it have to be for anyone other than the people involved in it?

(Though I’m sure people outside the project get value from it as well, like OpenBSD using Asahi bootloader)

fwn 17 hours ago|||
I bought a Mac mini M4 simply because it was very cheap and the M4 chip offers great performance. It is currently mounted on the back of my TV and serves as a media station.

It runs macOS, but I have no particular interest in the operating system, nor do I own any other Apple hardware. (So no synergies.) It is alright (and better than Win11) but the preinstalled software does not even properly update without an Apple account. As soon as I can switch over to Linux, I will. ... I would just wait for all the ports to work.

wingworks 13 hours ago|||
Same same. I love Mac, and macOS, but as a server, macOS is terrible, and bloated, and a pain to run docker/podman.
contingencies 12 hours ago|||
Me too, M4 and keen to run Linux, partly because every damn system update bloats the system by 20GB but no memorably useful novel feature actually emerges and partly because it's long term stable. That said, at this stage in my career I appreciate a working system that doesn't require umpteen kernel recompiles!
zer0zzz 6 hours ago|||
Target user is someone that wants to use Linux on good hardware. Apple hardware has some of the best perf-per-single-thread-perf-per-watt there is. Also, apple desktops are really compact and easy to keep out of the way while having really good performance too.

My current linux PC cuda machine is the latest Intel Ultra 9 mini PC from minisforum, and it still isnt quite as fast as a years old M1/M2. The only thing it has that the mac doesnt is cuda egpu support.

raverbashing 17 hours ago||
Honestly I wouldn't waste any of my time trying to run a worse OS than MacOS in a hardware that wasn't completely supported by the sw

As much as I like Linux this kind of tinkering is only for people with more time and less expectations about the experience

If I need Linux I can always go for UTM or something similar

zer0zzz 6 hours ago||
Sounds like you haven't used Asahi. I found the kde remix to be pretty nice to use. Literally the only thing that I found frustrating was:

1) for the longest time, but no longer, Google did not ship an official chrome linux arm64 package. Chromium Browser also has not included google sync for years now. But now, google chrome does ship for arm64 linux so its all good.

2) usb-c video still doesn't work, so not ideal for a laptop without hdmi that you'd want to dock

Otherwise, it works really well.

raverbashing 3 hours ago||
Good to know, but even in a well rounded Linux it seems you hit several mini-annoyances every day

Case in point, any form of package management. Or then you have Flatpack, with its own list of issues

amelius 13 hours ago|
My bet: Apple is going to close it down. It is too much of a legal risk. What if some Linux enthusiast finds patent infringements in Apple's undocumented APIs?
ravenstine 12 hours ago||
Why would they even care? 99% of people aren't going to be installing Linux on their Macbook. If Apple did care, they'd have stopped allowing dual booting a long time ago.
Danox 8 hours ago||
It works for now, but one day it won’t then what?
zer0zzz 6 hours ago||
FUD based in no actual facts. Recently with the new Golden Gate OS update, Asahi boot was made inoperable. Apple basically helped the Asahi folks work around a flag in the boot loader that they had not figured out how to handle in their reverse engineering. This doesnt strike me as the actions of an organization that is planning to close down the ability for asahi to boot after years of allowing it.
dylanger 3 hours ago|||
There used to be a rule in some of the AsahiLinux channels that no RE discussion was allowed, not sure why.

I also know the AsahiLinux team is very aware if there are any unintended things that cross the Linux-macOS boundary Apple would very likely just shut it down.

Apparently even the macbook neo has the ability to run AsahiLinux, so they can definitely allow access to running alt OSs pretty easily

dev_tty01 4 hours ago|||
Why do you think they would be concerned about patent infringements? Like all major tech companies, they are constantly fighting numerous patent lawsuits, mostly from trolls but sometimes other tech companies. It is part of the cost of doing business today. Some Linux enthusiast finding a possible patent infringement is of no concern to Apple.
hurricanepootis 13 hours ago|||
Asahi linux has been going on for a few years now
amelius 13 hours ago||
I recently read somewhere that someone wrote a letter/email to Apple's legal team, explaining the risks. Sorry if I cannot be more specific, I already went through my browser history and cannot find it back right now. PS: Browsers really need to improve here, it is crazy that I cannot search through my history in a meaningful way.
WhyNotHugo 12 hours ago|||
https://hister.org/ sounds like something you'd appreciate.
apatheticonion 13 hours ago|||
On the topic of browsers, I feel your pain. There were a good few years where they were shipping new and useful features, but they plateaued and started removing features. I can't remember the last time I was excited about browser features.
zer0zzz 13 hours ago||
Man… they absolutely do not care. An Apple engineer made the boot loader for Mac open in the first place.
Danox 8 hours ago||
Darwin is still sitting there all these years. It’s called market inertia.
zer0zzz 6 hours ago||
What is the context here? I am saying, if they cared what OS users booted on their mac they would have used the same boot process the iPad has. They wouldn't have gone out of their way to make it possible to boot systems not signed by Apple.