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Posted by evakhoury 1 day ago

What do Visa and Mastercard do? An intro to card networks(tautology.town)
543 points | 326 commentspage 3
kburman 16 hours ago|
[deleted]
nosioptar 16 hours ago|
The answer to that is to "donate" to about 270 congress critters. Buying 5 motorhomes for supreme court members could work too.
9cb14c1ec0 16 hours ago||
> The answer to that is to "donate" to about 270 congress critters.

Not too far off. You gotta ask why such a lucrative business has a near monopoly, and the answer is not that potential competitors don't notice their profit margin.

montenegrohugo 14 hours ago||
Some light self-promotion but also longer term thoughts:

A large part of the promise of crypto and stablecoins was to displace Visa and Mastercard rent-seeking. This didn't seem to happen. Most modern neobanks, our own included (https://peanut.me), actually seem to EMBRACE Visa and Mastercard. Almost all offer an actual Fiat card within their app, instead of boldly saying "No, pay with crypto, the future of money!"

This is somewhat disappointing in the short term, but longterm i believe it offers a clear transitory path to full decentralized money adoption. Already today we're seeing a growth in direct peer to peer payments in peanut, and merchants slowly starting to adopt it as well. I imagine the same is happening across the industry. In a competitive economy, the better currency (read: crypto, stablecoins) wins and eventually absorbs adoption.

my 2 cents

topranks 13 hours ago||
Crypto is in no way better money.

It’s slow and expensive and doesn’t scale.

The real answer is an alternative that relies on a centralised provider - or set of them - who use traditional databases and the like, but do things in a modern efficient way and don’t charge the same fees as the current card providers do.

montenegrohugo 3 hours ago||
> It’s slow and expensive and doesn’t scale.

This is 2020 speak. In 2026, crypto scales and its extremely cheap. it costs less than a hundredth of a cent to do a transfer today.

GJim 38 minutes ago||
> In 2026, crypto scales and its extremely cheap.

And is helping fry the planet.

No thanks.

gwbas1c 14 hours ago||
The problem is that bitcoin (and similar) are so computationally intense to run, that the transaction cost is much higher than Visa's.

Furthermore, a currency needs a government (or similar kind of body) to manage its stability, by printing (and buying) money. Otherwise, we'll see wide fluctuations in value like what happens with Bitcoin.

montenegrohugo 3 hours ago|||
Bitcoin is not suited for payments. Bitcoiners use lightning.

But to be clear, all payment innovations in crypto happen on EVMs and L2s. And in 2026, stuff is extremely scaleable and computationally cheap.

simonmales 13 hours ago|||
True on the main chain of Bitcoin. Bitcoin payments on the lightning network are not computationally intense.
topranks 13 hours ago||
Hahaha haven’t heard that one in a long time. Cracked me up.
tonymet 16 hours ago||
Don’t forget arbitrage, which is the withholding of transferred funds for 7 days while the capital remains in visa’s accounts for “investing” / speculation.

It’s like if you gave your buddy $100 to give to his room mate, and he decides to wait a week and gamble it on Kalshi

throw1234567891 16 hours ago||
You better don't look into how banks make money on your savings.
erfgh 14 hours ago||
You better don't look into how banks created your savings by creating loans that were used to invest into companies and thus pay salaries.
nonethewiser 16 hours ago||
>It’s like if you gave your buddy $100 to give to his room mate, and he decides to wait a week and gamble it on Kalshi

Or treasuries.

Its actually a minor part of rheir business.

And frankly who cares given that its a sustainable system. I pay on credit and then someone else pays. I dont give a shit of they are betting on how many times Al Roker says Trump on New Years Eve.

tonymet 12 hours ago||
The merchants , who need that cash flow
hungryhobbit 17 hours ago||
They tax our entire economy at X rate, while maintaining their infrastructure only requires Y cost ... and X is significantly higher than Y.

From the actual article:

> The payment processor keeps 0.35% ($0.35), then pays 2% ($2.00) to the cardholder’s issuing bank and 0.15% ($0.15) to Visa. The 2% is the interchange fee, commonly known as interchange. The 0.15% is the network assessment fee. 8

In other words, they get 0.35% of every transaction ... and it does not require anything close to that to maintain their network.

superxpro12 17 hours ago||
middlemanning is the most american of business ventures
einpoklum 14 hours ago||
I thought that title belonged to bombing campaigns and coups by shady guerilla groups.
gloryjulio 17 hours ago|||
> and it does not require anything close to that to maintain their network.

If it's so easy to disrupt visa/mastercard payment network, they wouldn't be able to charge this much. Payment is a highly competitive business. We witnessed so many payment companies went under or were bought out, but these two stay for years and are still profitable.

The truth is their moat is considered very durable and hard to build. A global n banks to n banks payment network is not as simple as how people thought.

cassiogo 16 hours ago|||
> If it's so easy to disrupt visa/mastercard payment network, they wouldn't be able to charge this much

If they have the US government behind them its much easier

https://thepaypers.com/payments/expert-views/pix-hits-a-wall...

coredog64 16 hours ago||||
Same as it ever was: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
Aspos 16 hours ago|||
If someone owned all the highways, building an alternative would be difficult as well.
warkdarrior 13 hours ago|||
Why hasn't Alipay completely replaced Visa and Mastercard in US? Everyone has a smartphone to scan a QR code.
Aspos 13 hours ago|||
I struggle to understand how is this relevant. Alipay is closer to paypal than to VISA/MC
notpushkin 6 hours ago||
Alipay the wallet app is closer to PayPal. But they also have Alipay+ which connects a lot of different wallets and banks: https://www.alipayplus.com/mobile-payment-provider-list/
8note 6 hours ago|||
have you not seen what happened to tiktok?
carlosjobim 14 hours ago|||
Visa and Mastercard do not own the internet cables or the wavelengths. Anybody is free to compete, and that's why they have many competitors. It is very common for businesses to accept a variety of unrelated payment methods. There is no monopoly here.
tialaramex 16 hours ago|||
That 0.35% feels more reasonable in 1976 or even maybe 2001 than it does today because technology changed so much. But maybe I'm wrong about that

If you're an American that 2% is a much bigger problem for your society. That's a direct funnel from the poor to the wealthy, it's not as a obvious a problem as "Trump gave the ultra-rich a tax cut" but it might structurally be more significant.

UltraSane 17 hours ago|||
Credit card companies are mostly parasitic middle men but I have a credit card that I use for most payments and pay off the balance every month and effectively get 2% cashback with no interest costs.
losteric 16 hours ago||
The actual rates charged to merchants are variable, and typically higher for rewards/cashback cards. Basically, other people are subsidizing cards with higher benefits/cash back (of course as people shift, the merchant raises prices to compensate for the higher average fee, or just charge an additional Z% higher than your cash back)
warkdarrior 13 hours ago||
> other people are subsidizing cards with higher benefits/cash back

Ripping off other people is the American way.

tonymet 16 hours ago||
Goods (and services) are priced at what the customer is willing to pay. In this case, the alternative is cash or cheques, both have much higher loss rates. That’s why vendors are eager to take visa over cash.
hgomersall 16 hours ago||
No, the alternatives are any number of other solutions that are not given a look-in to the very lucrative duopoly. The network effects are prohibitive for upstarts.
tonymet 12 hours ago||
Can you give an example ?
dzonga 15 hours ago||
in short they're TRUST networks.

which is also why crypto bros get confused.

hacker_88 12 hours ago||
Now try security of bitcoin
shevy-java 16 hours ago||
Europeans really need to stop handing their money over to Trump-Visa and Trump-Card here. Canadians learned that lesson already. Why do european politicians not learn anything? Leyen even signed a surrender treaty where european taxpayers lose money that goes into the USA. I say stop it with the proxy-control from Washington.
FabCH 16 hours ago||
Europeans have alternative payment networks already. For example, CH has Twint.

They are actively being unified into a cross-border payment network.

Of all the things to complain, this is the one where they are actually doing something…

ranguna 14 hours ago|||
As someone from an EU country: the only place where I use visa/MasterCard is at Amazon. Everything else I use my country's payment system, which is now joining with Italy's own and probably more in the coming years.
toomuchtodo 16 hours ago||
Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48647444 - June 2026 (376 comments)

European Parliament committee backs digital euro - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48645468 - June 2026 (2 comments)

Gov.uk has replaced Stripe with Dutch provider Adyen - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48415217 - June 2026 (235 comments)

Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48207004 - May 2026 (777 comments)

Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038965 - February 2026 (132 comments)

Europe's Banks Launch Wero Payments to Dislodge Visa, Mastercard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666833 - September 2024 (88 comments)

Unofficial Wero Adoption Tracker - https://www.werotracker.eu/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

halilBB 3 hours ago||
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Jzuckerman 9 hours ago|
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