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Posted by Cider9986 4 hours ago

Copyright does more harm than good and should be abolished(grapheneos.social)
242 points | 223 commentspage 3
KaiserPro 4 hours ago|
Did google circa 2012 write this?

All of this is a problem because someone exerted influence over the US government.

Google _knew_ that openai was scraping youtube to train whisper et al. They didn't stop it because they realised that they if they sued them, they would have to pay to train.

So they silently also did the same thing.

With that, copyright in training went to shit.

Copyright, should, allow you or me to make a living from "intellectual works" or anything else tangible/not tangible

teiferer 3 hours ago||
Funny how people writing such things are also at the forefront of accusing LLM companies of stealing big time. Because of copyright violations.

So, which one is it?

etiennebausson 3 hours ago|
Both, it should be brought down, but it should be the same rule for everyone.

Big Tech doesn't get to ignore copyright law just because they have deeper pockets.

teiferer 3 hours ago||
> it should be the same rule for everyone

I don't think that's going to suffice.

Neither for the people arguing the original point who want protection for what they are doing but don't want protection for the big players who just make big bucks and "shut everybody down whom they don't like".

Nor from a philosophical big picture POV. The little innovator needs protections. The big capitalist less so. It's why labor laws are more strict with bigger corps than small shops. And why higher incomes pay more taxes. (Well that's the idea. That they find ways to circumvent the idea is a different story.)

izacus 3 hours ago||
You keep making up strwamen and positions that don't exist.

Maybe mock something people have actually said.

mrkeen 2 hours ago||
What's the most generous, charitable definition of an alternative?
bruce511 4 hours ago||
"Copyright" covers a lot of areas, from films to books to software etc. So blanket statements about it are not helpful.

From the mention of LLMs I guess he means software copyright. But then refers to takedowns, which I don't see much of in the copyright space.

And possibly he's confusing copyright with patents?

For software, copyright I the only thing that protects Free Software. Without it GPL would not exist, and all GPL software could be used wherever without releasing sources.

Copyright most certainly protects small business against big business. It is the model on which most small software businesses are built.

Patents are bad, and if you replace the term "cooyright" with patent in the original article it makes more sense. But to be fair it's hard to put much credibility into a post that doesn't even understand that difference.

opan 3 hours ago||
Copyleft licenses like the GPL are doing the best they can in the current world. Abolishing copyright would not harm the free software movement.

I wouldn't bother to treat music and art separately from software either. It's a shame when a game is free software but not free culture and a distro has to package it in a non-working state and ask you to separately provide some files from elsewhere.

Re-releases of proprietary games often run into issues with music licensing as well and end up removing some of the old iconic music and upsetting the players.

Cider9986 4 hours ago||
Every week GrapheneOS seems to come out with a good take. Monero, Authoritarianism, AI, now copyright.

Very well aligned with my beliefs not to mention it's one of if not the most private OS.

Mikhail_Edoshin 3 hours ago||
Copyright should be commoditized. A possible first step could be giving copyright owners a single obligation: you have to sell what you own. That thing you have must be available on the market.

This rules out negotiations. They imply a possible negative result, hence the thing is not really available. A public offer, however, is fine.

This thing alone may change the situation quite a bit. Imagine a true market for textbooks or streaming media where every provider has the same selection of titles and has to actually compete.

saaaaaam 3 hours ago||
But what does “available on the market” mean? Let’s say I own the copyright to something of cultural significance. I make it “available on the market” but at a very high price. Or are you saying that the price would be enforced?
DrScientist 2 hours ago|||
What happens if I wrote a book - sent around to a few publishers and then personally had a change of heart - perhap it has content which I now disavow.

Shouldn't it be within my right to withhold publication?

Or because I refuse to publish, but the publishers have a copy - I should lose the right to control my own work and the copyright falls and the publisher can just publish freely?

wallst07 1 hour ago|||
It seems the consensus in this thread [if I'm skimming correctly] is most want copyright completely removed.

So in your hypothetical: you write the book and have a change of heart, I'll just copy it verbatim, slap my name on it and now I'm the author.

DrScientist 33 minutes ago||
> It seems the consensus in this thread [if I'm skimming correctly] is most want copyright completely removed.

I think there is confusion between copyright and other things around it.

For example if I buy a physical book, I own it. I'm free to sell it or give it away. Things like the DMCA and the switch from an ownership model to a rental model are more the problem.

ie does getting rid of copyright enable right to repair? Does getting rid of copyright suddenly stop a games company pulling software from your library that you 'bought'?

Wouldn't these companies just put all the restrictions directly into the purchase agreement?

dvdkon 1 hour ago|||
You could establish contracts with publishers outside of copyright, which is how NDAs work today. It's probably a reasonable thing to do anyway, otherwise there's nothing stopping a publisher from telling everyone the plot summary of your newest novel.
DrScientist 24 minutes ago||
By the same argument, wouldn't all the things you don't like about copyright - like restrictions with what you can do with the thing you have bought - just be put directly into the purchase agreement.

Isn't the way to focus on creating consumer protection rights, rather than just leaving it to people with the best legal department and deepest pockets to control the rules?

dvdkon 13 minutes ago||
From my understanding what's keeping us from this kind of dystopia are restrictions on shrinkwrap agreements, general restrictions on one-sided contracts, and the fact that breach of contract "only" creates civil and not criminal (like copyright) liability.
Planktonne 2 hours ago||
> A possible first step could be giving copyright owners a single obligation: you have to sell what you own

This would be wildly unreasonable and totally unethical. Every picture taken by a photographer has to be available on the market immediately?

Think through the ethical implications of that.

blfr 4 hours ago||
As a Linux user of over 20 years, I really don't like thinking of myself as some Aborigine barely holding on to a scrap of ancestral land. My tech preferences have become so ubiquitous that nearly the entire Internet runs them.

In Angels in America Roy Cohn is given this line where he is so politically embedded he can simply guess stuff and be right "You don't know what all I know. I don't know what all I know. Half this shit I make up and I'm still right". I feel this way about tech now.

I don't need to worry how it works. I take a guess of how it should work and I'm usually right. Not on Windows or some other subpar platform. But can my Android play white noise on the speaker and a podcast on the headphones? While yes, of course it can. I learned that fiddling with Pulse audio years ago and now it's just expected.

someguynamedq 4 hours ago||
It already de facto has been. Have you seen LLMs?
bronlund 2 hours ago|
Copyright is just formalized greed.
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