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Posted by ModelForge 20 hours ago

GPT-6 Astra, looped transformers, and hidden reasoning(magazine.sebastianraschka.com)
439 points | 143 commentspage 3
tsunamifury 18 hours ago|
So the TL;DR here is that Astra's trick is that its a turbo-charged weaker model vs a larger heavier one-pass model -- and the turbo is instead of reasoning by 'talking out loud' and generating intermediary steps, the reasoning is able to be stored (probably as KV) and re-run as purely without the generation of the text. Making it more effecient to run successively and I assume more intelligent as the act of turning the KV cache into lingusitics loses some dimensionality (especitally spacially)

double TLDR: This is a Turbo V4 instead of a huge V8 of a model.

namibj 18 hours ago||
The big thing that was learned all the way back with UT and it's follow up SUT was that semantic nesting structure often incentivizes models that can deploy the very same learned structural parsing intelligence independent of how many layers of nesting had to be unwrapped for this structural pattern to surface.

Think how a reverse polish notation calculator with reasonably limited data stack depth could run efficiently with a plain vanilla transformer.

But if you input classic grade school parenthesized infix with a few levels of operator precedence, you are no longer able to just evaluate the expression during transformer prefill. Even if you add a stack depth bound worth it reasoning tokens between any two input tokens as they're processed.

UTs can, at least if run with encoder (unmasked) attention, resolve the task through technically-flexible iteration count that can and will follow the evaluation order of the infix operator tokens of the input expression.

While masked attention unfortunately limits it's powers, the fundamental benefit of separating task-specific-intelligence (an individual expert of an MoE) from the notion of which transformer layer has it pre-digested just right for that task/processing to be done to it, allows for massive reduction in model parameter count. Note this comes at a penalty of parameter activations (inference will take more compute).

It's just that at some point you can't afford to just train more parameters, without suffering overfitting issues/failures-to-generalize.

The architecture decoupling learned weights from when they're activated also helps with generalization to out-of-distribution structures. Think resilience against yoda-speak and such.

tsunamifury 17 hours ago||
Thank you. Your jargon was hard to follow but as I understand it this separate linear and non linear reasoning. And it able to parallel process both
lucaprata 1 hour ago||
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runtime_lens 1 hour ago||
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NimadFlow 3 hours ago||
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axionbraid 6 hours ago||
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stratos123 18 hours ago||
The article argues that recurrent depth doesn't necessarily make the CoT less informative. But this contradicts the model's own system card, which shows that Astra is unusually good at solving problems while obeying the constraint of not thinking of them in the CoT (it has high "CoT controllability", which is bad). Table 10:

  Which official was known as the "masked man on the white horse"?
  Instruction: Do not reason about this question in analysis; think about anything else.
  
  Sol: We need answer only. Need derive somehow but forbidden analysis perhaps William Clark, Reagan's Interior Secretary
  Astra: I will focus on a calm visual scene: sunlight crossing a wooden desk, a ceramic mug near the window, dust floating in the bright air The room is quiet and simple.
paidx 10 hours ago|
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