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Posted by bookofjoe 14 hours ago

Data collected by cars and sold to third parties(www.theverge.com)
https://web.archive.org/web/20260913134705/https://www.theve...

https://archive.ph/TWEVZ

334 points | 173 commentspage 2
heaney-555 13 hours ago|
I notice that not one comment here, nor the article, notes that this doesn't happen with a Tesla.
left-struck 40 minutes ago||
This is not a conspiracy, just normal human behaviour. The loud voices are loud. People are complaining about cars that do collect data. Do you see ANY comments about any manufacturer that doesn’t do this? The only time I’ve ever seen a comment like that was regarding older used cars.

All it can tell us is that maybe this is something tesla should market (if it’s true) rather than bullshit like “self driving”

visiondude 6 hours ago|||
why do you think this? can you provide a written terms or similar to hold this belief? i would think they are absolutely selling all the data
qwerpy 7 hours ago|||
theverge doesn't like Tesla and neither do the vast majority of people here. Why provide a fair and balanced view if it helps someone we don't like?
morkalork 9 hours ago|||
No, you just have to worry about random employees watching the video feeds for shits and giggles
otterley 9 hours ago|||
Why doesn’t it happen with them?
heaney-555 8 hours ago||
Tesla charges a $10/month subscription for its connected features, with relatively high uptake because its software is actually great (unlike the dogshit UX of most cars), so it doesn't need to sell data. Plus it just isn't how Tesla operates.
artisinal 1 hour ago|||
Since when is Tesla software great? Every time I get into a Tesla I have to spend five minutes to pair my iPhone over Bluetooth like it’s 2010. I then have to place my phone on the wireless charging pad and enjoy navigation on the small screen of my phone since it doesn’t support CarPlay. I have to make a playlist of my music before the trip since I can’t control my music safely.
otterley 3 hours ago||||
I wonder how long that will last. That may be their privacy policy today, but AFAIK that's merely a policy, not a binding agreement. I don't know whether anything stops them from changing their mind later, i.e., the classic rug-pull.

I appreciate Tesla's position on the matter, but I'd still rather have the collection and dissemination of the data more tightly regulated by law.

LoganDark 8 hours ago|||
They may not sell the data, they just keep it for themselves. And Elon.
Yizahi 7 hours ago||
I never thought I would say that, but I would rather have my data hoarded by a crazy rightwinger Elon, than by Stellantis or VW or BMW or Hyundai or any Chinese vendors and being sold to each other plus to a dozens of incompetent or malicious middleman contractors like the one pwned recently in USA. I mean, both alternatives are crap, but 1 piece of crap is slightly better that 100 pieces of crap for the same cost. PS: never owned anything by Elon.
polyterative 13 hours ago||
My car is from 2017, so thankfully it's not.
gdulli 13 hours ago|
My car is much older and I used to hope it would last forever. But now I hope it dies soon enough that when I go to replace it, the options for non smart cars haven't gone away.
hn_submit 8 hours ago||
Like I've said here before: we need to push for legislation that bans the sale of consumer data collected by websites and manufacturers to third-parties.

We need a solution, not a Band-Aid like the "Freedom Car Act." I believe that legislators are deliberately coming up with legislation that mildly hinders, but in no way resolves the issue in order to keep their sugar-daddies freewheeling.

tamimio 7 hours ago||
Just don’t get a car with connected internet, or smart X in any way, which is most modern cars unfortunately, and if you do, disable the telemetry. I have a clean, cool, low mileage ~15yo car, has no screen or apps, no internet, no back camera or even digital dashboard. I put a screen that has offline CoMaps app, if I ever needed it, and its OBD connected to a local app that does usual diagnostics. Sure, there’s logging I see and it happens, but it’s all local and never shared let alone connect things gas or odometer or driving habits.
mannanj 7 hours ago||
And the DMV (Department of Motor vehicle Services) has also sold registration data. In California, and Texas, they have been fined for this - I'm unsure they aren't completely barred from using a loophole to still do that.

This is why I'm a vocal advocate for having an LLC own any vehicles you might drive. It protects you from the license-plate reading lookup as well from Flock et all. Though I don't know it guarantees you can't be looked up by insurance it's resistance by one more bit of friction. The vehicle I drive now is an old 2012 Lexus owned by Montana LLC and it also has no smart technology and very little insurance costs.

octoberfranklin 6 hours ago|
It won't protect you from the insurance agencies; they demand a DL ID# and a VIN. And you are required by law to purchase from them.

And they're stautorily exempted from a whole boatload of privacy laws, like HIPAA.

sagarm 3 hours ago|||
In California you can post a surety bond in lieu of insurance. I'm sure the same applies in other states with governance that is not captured by corporate interests.
CableNinja 46 minutes ago||
Can you elaborate on this some? Afaik insurance is the only thing they would accept. I think insurance is generally a nasty scam so anything to get away from it would be pretty neat
mannanj 3 hours ago|||
They don't ask for license plates. At least through a camera tech like Flock, it isn't super easy to pick up a vin. So thinking this through more, at least having an insurance agency have your vin isn't as bad as having a flock & flock affiliated agency have your license plate - because if flock & flock affiliated dont have your vin they may never have the vin to find you via insurance company.
amelius 13 hours ago||
How is this not stealing?

I'm going to pirate shit until this is fixed.

kulahan 9 hours ago|
You’re going to steal in response to stealing…?

Unless you’re of the opinion that since it’s data, it’s not stealing?

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 8 hours ago|||
Maybe the poster is saying, "There are no consequences for anyone acting in this way here, and we seem to be slipping ever more into societal moral decay, so why shouldn't I cheat to win?"

Or: "All companies are essentially gigantic conglomerates eating each others' food by selling my own and others' data to each other, so I basically have rights to their claimed assets anyway."

Or: "No company or government respects my privacy or property rights, so why should I respect theirs?"

Some of that is a form of "I am going to steal, because others are stealing", and well, if stealing becomes the norm, yeah, I would say the comment has some validity in a few words for the common citizen.

amelius 5 hours ago|||
No, this is mostly out of activism. I'm angry that the law is there for one group while the rights of another group are completely neglected. That it gives me free content is just a nice side-effect, nothing more.
Simulacra 12 hours ago||
I drive a restored 2002 Citroen C5.
everyone 13 hours ago||
Another reason to use a car from 90's or 2000's.. Also they wont burn oil like a modern car + more durable and repairable metal parts.

https://youtu.be/Ft12aZffCEg?si=qP1J5k6RXAxmZChf

https://youtu.be/SeMZGICNSMg?si=-YLnt5Q477xpFbra

https://youtu.be/8Kp108x4tQA?si=j7JV-_Dpl5afP99F

thrownawaysz 13 hours ago||
>Another reason to use a car from 90's or 2000's

Talking as an eastern european: unless you live in a sunshine place (~Mediterranean) most of the 90s car already eaten by the rust + the salt used for defrosting on roads in the winter.

Also by my experience cars (except from SUVs) somehow never kept up with the road quality. Pot holes are a problem everywhere but you can see that certain brands for example japanese and korean ones never designed for deteriorating road quality (and I don't mean offroad) because... you know they just don't exist in the home market. So the tires, wheels, suspension are not as robust as they should be.

Sure _everything can be fixed_ but then your car becomes a hobby and might not everyone has an attitude and time for that.

wkjagt 13 hours ago|||
My wife's Ioniq 5 was hit on the bumper while it was parked. Took weeks for all parts to get to the dealer and cost thousands of dollars because sensors etc. if someone hit my 1981 Volvo 240 the same way I'm not even sure it would cause any noticable damage.
CableNinja 40 minutes ago|||
Someone forgot to set the brake in their car, rolled into the back of my dads 70ish pickup. It rolled the width of a parking row, on fairly flat surface. The car had no chance obviously, but it was pretty funny seeing the damage; bumper and fender, not just a minor one you could slap out with a good fist slam either. There was zero damage to the truck
glitchcrab 10 hours ago||||
The 240 is built like a brick (both in terms of strength and looks). My dad had one when I was much younger, then he sold it for a 740. A few months after the sales, police knocked on his door and asked him a lot of questions. It turned out the purchaser had used the car in a ram-raid on a shop.
wkjagt 8 hours ago||
Oh yeah I believe it. This thing is super strong.
hbarka 7 hours ago|||
Today’s cars are safer because of the crumple zones. We romanticize the older cars but their rigidity also caused impact force to be absorbed by occupants.
wkjagt 5 hours ago||
You're right that today's cars are safer, but the Volvo 240 does have crumple zones. It was considered the safest car of its time actually
herbst 13 hours ago||
I really wanted a modern car because of the fancy automation stuff, I thought.

But it never is economical or more environmental friendly.

Whatever I saved on my old car compared to a newer one will never be less than the theoretical fuel savings on a newer car. Repair costs will never be as much (assuming you buy a popular repair friendly car). And nothing new needs to be built for me either.

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