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Posted by jasonpeacock 2 days ago

PCB is brought to you by Fable 5(a6mzero.com)
101 points | 49 commentspage 2
BlackRabbit1 5 hours ago|
If it's functional: that's a breakthrough.

But: the PCB itself is not looking beautiful in terms of routing and a lot of schematic details yet. Horrible to to be more honest. But that's a minor issue.

I'm not overly shocked. 90% of creating PCBs is copying reference schematics from vendor datasheets and connecting them. That's LLM territory. This mostly failed for now as they just did pdf2text and killed all documents.

The last 10% are brutal (HF, EMC, high frequency multi-layer designs, etc.). But I managed LLMs to automatically create ngspice models using vision onto datasheets.. lol

akiselev 4 hours ago|
Shameless plug for the slop coded CLI I use in my workflow: https://github.com/akiselev/datasheet-cli

It just sends the PDF to Gemini Flash and asks it to extract semi structured data (semi structured in the sense that it's not fully structured extraction, but its a JSON file to feed into the next step of the LLM design process).

Works pretty well in general, though I should update to the latest Gemini version.

CamperBob2 4 hours ago||
That's pretty cool! How reliable has the footprint extraction been?
SuperMouse 3 hours ago||
I tested it With Gemini 2.5 Flash. Works great.
wasabinator 1 hour ago||
I saw the board cost, but how about the total cost in tokens to design it? Can empathise with the good and meh feeling you got from it. For me I try to stick with manual struggles with new concepts which grows my brain and allows me learn something new. But its impressive what LLMs can do.
a6mzero 1 hour ago|
I am on Max 5x plan, so there were no additional costs. But the would-be API cost was around 450 usd.
Cyan488 2 days ago||
I built a project nearly identical to this one so knowing the level of complexity required, I'm not surprised it worked. AI is indeed raising the floor. Even simple hobby designs were once out of reach, but now we can "YOLO it and build stuff fast without necessarily knowing about the details" as the author puts it.

That said, without experience it's easy to pierce the veil of "simple circuitry" by accident, just like in XKCD: Tasks[1].

Looking at preview of the author's next project at the end of the article, I'm not so sure the same strategy will work. The board is probably two orders of magnitude more complex. Without knowing the circuit details, I see many red flags (randomly placed ics and decoupling, likely wrong length matching, random thick traces indicating lack of foresight on power distribution, backwards connectors, the probably unnecessary use of BGA footprints, etc).

[1]: https://xkcd.com/1425/

ramesh31 2 days ago|
This seems to fall into the same category I've seen with basically all agent driven software as well. That is to say, "Amazing that someone with no experience could do this, but not interesting at all in its own right". Call me when AI is laying out the next TSMC node.
N_Lens 5 hours ago||
The machine designed the circuit board in two hours, which was impressive, and the human understood it in never, which is becoming traditional.
PowerElectronix 3 hours ago||
Yeah, we're still very far from a machine routing PCBs. Nice project, though, looks pretty fun to do it with an AI.
lnsru 1 hour ago||
Machine routing is very old thing. Early Eagle did it fine. I worked 12 years ago on 4 layer pcb initially routed with Eagle. Layers with horizontal and vertical wires were unusual at the time, but the board worked fine. It’s the connector placement according enclosure design files, part management/availability/obsolescence and design for test what needs reliable automation. The tool may not hallucinate here.
a6mzero 2 hours ago||
I researched a bit on how to manufacture PCBs at home, and i came across Voltera V one. The price is indeed way too high, but I am hoping somebody will make a foss version of it. There are already pretty interesting foss PnP machines.
PowerElectronix 2 hours ago||
For a 2-layer pcb I would either go chemical etching or a small routing cnc. Chemical etching kits , uv lamps and blank pcbs are not "too" expensive, but it's more of a professional setup than a hobbyist. Just think of all the PCBs yoi can send to manufacture (and with 4 layers and more) for the price of even getting half the stuff.
nullc 1 hour ago||
It's pretty interesting to watch an LLM drive ngspice. ... clearly an area that could use more training, but good enough to make it less annoying for me to use.
crote 2 days ago||
Would you be willing to share the full design files? Considering most of the PCB is well-trodden territory, it would be quite interesting to see the details what it actually came up with!
smalltorch 2 days ago||
Very cool! Can you reveal how much this custom board cost you?
ac29 2 days ago||
I sent in a larger, slightly more complex board to JLCPCB over the weekend and it was $175 for 5 boards with components and assembly. Shipping, tariffs (ouch), and sales taxes added another ~$100 or so.
Cyan488 2 days ago||
> For five fully assembled boards I paid 130 Euros, ordered the E-ink displays from a local shop

I built a project board nearly identical to this one a few years ago, and this seems about right. I don't think the displays themselves are included in the 130 euros. They can vary a lot in price depending on spec and supplier.

a6mzero 3 hours ago||
Yes indeed. I paid 7.5 euros extra per e-ink display. So it was 33.5 euros per board.
applfanboysbgon 2 hours ago|
> That said, I was not feeling much of an accomplishment, rightfully so. I used to enjoy the learning and the struggle that came with it.

> Yes it does suck that the joy we had while building has been sucked out of us

> For my hobby projects tho, I will continue to YOLO it and build stuff fast without necessarily knowing about the details.

I don't understand this conclusion. LLMs sucked the joy out of it, didn't feel rewarding, you're forced to use them at work, so you decide... just keep doing it at home, too? Why not actually learn to build a proper PCB knowing you can do much better than this horrible (despite being dead-simple) board that only got there with the help of your expert colleague's guidance anyways? Don't succumb to utter laziness and deny yourself the satisfaction of learning new skills, that's letting the thing rot your brain out worse than any TV ever did.

a6mzero 2 hours ago|
You are right. What I meant in my conclusion was more about : "I will use these tools to generate parts of a project I don't necessarily care about." I already started learning about proper PCB design, and I am actively fighting against choosing an LLM instead of grasping a concept fully. It's something I am struggling with, but all this is new for most of us. Hoping I will find a good balance at the end. Thanks for your remarks :)
applfanboysbgon 2 hours ago||
Fair enough. I think there is great value to using LLMs to assist in learning new hobbies, helping lessen the friction, and doing research. I just think it's sad if you let them replace your thinking completely instead of augmenting it. Cheers for the human-written blog post, I did enjoy reading it.
a6mzero 2 hours ago||
Thank you :) That means a lot to me.