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Posted by albelfio 21 hours ago

Introducing System One Models and Jev(typesafe.ai)
1652 points | 456 commentspage 11
nelaggy 12 hours ago|
insane doom demo i wonder what the limits of its intelligence are? i'm guessing it's not great at reasoning tasks, it seems breaking down the problem helps significantly, but how much does a problem need to be broken down for reliable performance? also this would be huge if it could run locally but it seems like there's no intention to do that at the moment
sim04ful 20 hours ago||
This sort of stuff almost sends shivers down my spine, it's like i'm looking 5 years into the future.
zenlikethat 18 hours ago||
join the discord! we love forward thinkers
darpa_hr 19 hours ago||
There was no "AI Winter"
adroitboss 20 hours ago||
I am positive I know exactly how this works, I made something similar a few months back. But the problem is without generation you are extremely limited in the use cases. And while the model can't hallucinate, it can still be wrong. It just can't make up data.
cooljoseph 14 hours ago||
Last year I also had a rather similar idea, but dropped it before I went very far in working on it. I wonder if you and I had similar ideas?

1. Start with an LLM, so that your model understands natural language.

2. Replace RoPE with a tree embedding scheme, and causal attention with a sparse attention on the graph structure. (You could use full attention... but it's cheaper to use graph attention.)

3. Chop off the final unembedding layer, replacing it with a projection down to two scalars, one for logits and one for confidence.

4. Each option of a choice is represented by a number of tokens in leaf position; average these tokens' logit outputs to get the option's logit. Average all of the confidences from all of the options to get the choice's confidence.

5. Train the logits by KL divergence from a true distribution (or NLL on samples from a true distribution).

6. Train the confidences on a subset of the data in which you know the entire true distribution.

The hardest part is getting real world data for workflows, but I wildly speculate that you can get by with only ~50,000 documents if you first adapt domains using synthetic data.

StevenWaterman 9 hours ago|||
Yeah saying it can't hallucinate is crazy. It can still forward a billing query to the dev department incorrectly. It can still get an obvious yes/no question completely wrong
dennisy 20 hours ago|||
Are you able to share how it works in that case?
adroitboss 19 hours ago||
I'll tell you this. Output isn't too cheap to meter, there is no decoder.
krackers 19 hours ago||
So an encoder-only model with a classifier trained on the heads or something? DeepSeek recently switched to an encoder-decoder architecture in an attempt to get the best of both worlds (fast prefill while preserving generation capability), I wonder if that might be the future?
adroitboss 5 hours ago||
This is basically what they have. https://github.com/fastino-ai/GLiNER2
mokre 20 hours ago||
That was the first thing that come into my head. OK I can train very simple model, that can generate json's for specific tasks, so what? How we can be sure that this "limited use cases" not just overfitting for particular outputs (or even distillation?)

Except this, this thing looks like revolution.

scottyah 20 hours ago||
Wild that it doesn't generate text. I wonder how its technology compares to Tesla's FSD stack.
jceg 20 hours ago||
> We deliberately chose not to publish performance against public benchmarks. In fact, we plan to only have one-off evals when we make product updates.

lol, I bet they would publish them if their score on those benchmarks were good.

tidewave 19 hours ago||
Congrats on the release!

Finetuning a language model for decision classification (with probabilities) is already well-understood. What specifically changes in the training objective with RLCD? Are its benefits isolated from Jev’s new architecture/parallelism?

strich 15 hours ago||
Huh this looks fantastic. The Doom demo really sold for me that this could be a great tool for accelerating QA at my gamedev studio. Signed up for early access.
findjashua 17 hours ago||
Would it be fair to say that this is tailored for tool-selection subagents?
kroaton 6 hours ago|
Seems that way.
Havoc 20 hours ago||
Will need hands on to truly tell, but the doom demo seems very promising. If it can play that with text descriptions of where stuff is by distance and degrees in a 3D context then many GUI automation tasks should be easily doable
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