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Posted by albelfio 14 hours ago

Introducing System One Models and Jev(typesafe.ai)
1362 points | 389 commentspage 3
niutech 1 hour ago|
How does Jev compare with encoder language models like BERT/RoBERTa/DistilBERT, which could also be used for text classification?
mortsnort 5 hours ago||
I am confused why they say it is not an LLM and then in the documentation it is shown as being an LLM derivative. The documentation makes it sound like they're taking a pretrained LLM and then giving it their unique post-training. How is that not an LLM?

FAQ: Is Jev just a smaller LLM?

Jev is neither small nor an LLM, hence being off the intelligence Pareto curve.

Image in documentation: https://mintcdn.com/ts-docs/aFVnpmCIX68NpsV1/images/ai-prime...

riknos314 4 hours ago|
LLM seems to have become synonymous with Generative Transformer architecture.

While this model may share much with GPT-style models on the encoder side, it clearly has a different decoder architecture. So is a high-parameter count language model an LLM even when it doesn't have a GPT-style decoder? The definitions are in flux.

alphazard 12 hours ago||
There's a whole lot of information on this page that doesn't tell me anything about what this actually is. Can anyone spell out what the architecture is here?

They claim it's not an LLM, which I read as "not an auto-regressive token generator". I assume they are still using a transformer, otherwise they would be talking about the thing that's not a transformer, instead of all the fluff on the linked page. But they emphasize parallel generation, so is it like a text diffusion model?

tacoooooooo 10 hours ago||
Sounds like its essentially a generalized zero-shot classifier that takes and option set at runtime and works on unstructured inputs.

you pass in your "prompt" and options (described in natural language) that it can respond with, in addition to your input. it gives back that option set with a probability assigned to each one

CompleteSkeptic 9 hours ago||
yes and can do many of those in parallel
bigglebear 8 hours ago||
I would guess a tiny stripped down text diffusion model. It only has 32k context, and for choice mode it can only select from 10 choices.
wesammikhail 7 hours ago||
> and for choice mode it can only select from 10 choices.

Rip there goes my excitement. I have a task that something like this would be great for but the list of options is a zero or two larger than that xd

copperx 5 hours ago|||
They said that it works with up to 255 options.
mercat 6 hours ago|||
you can still chain them
dinobones 12 hours ago||
This is a good product but the naming/branding is pretty unfortunate.

Typesafe.AI sounds like some typescript/structured output type of tool…

What even is “system one” ?

IMO the product/tech is really there, just needs better communication.

salicideblock 37 minutes ago||
> What even is "system one"

I definitely agree it's underexplained in type safe.ai's materials.

I have to assume it's a reference to the fast, heuristic, intuitive "system 1" process in humans, as opposed to the slow, procedural, reasoning "system 2".

This theory is recognized, among others, in Daniel Kahneman 2002 Nobel prize on Economics.

zenlikethat 12 hours ago|||
The model can't reason comprehensively (e.g., like Sol XHigh would to solve a complicated problem), but it's designed to be able to answer anything a human reasonably could quickly and intuitively, i.e., system one thinking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow
vintermann 2 hours ago||
I wonder how well it can play chess, or go.
wging 11 hours ago|||
I had a different initial confusion - it seems this company has no relation to the company formerly known as Typesafe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akka.io
toddmorey 12 hours ago||
I mean, it's a structured output model that (apparently) can't hallucinate. I don't mind the name.
flyinglizard 11 hours ago||
It can't hallucinate, but it doesn't mean it can't make wrong decisions. Just because it adheres to a specific output format at all time, while LLMs have the output format at their mercy, then the claim of not hallucinating is made technically true.

I think that this specific part is not super interesting if your harness just recovers from invalid LLM outputs.

The latency and cost - yes, those are super interesting.

Otterly99 2 hours ago||
Always exciting to see people working on novel models, rather than the Nth version of the same slightly tweaked LLM.

I'm very curious how much ressources are needed to run such a model. This could be a complete game changer for local applications.

albelfio 14 hours ago||
https://x.com/completeskeptic/status/2099925682726002904?s=4...

The doom demo is quite cool

magicmicah85 14 hours ago||
The doom demo is also in the article, for anyone that doesn't want to go to X.com. :)
caspar 8 hours ago|||
I'm not sure the authors realize this is way more than "just a cool demo": if this holds up, it's going to be huge for game QA work.

Instrument your game to output properties of entities near the player and the output is the various control inputs - moment to moment gameplay gets solved. Maybe augment with a tick-by-tick controlled stepping mode if particularly twitchy - an LLM can take care of the higher level reasoning then.

ErneX 14 hours ago|||
Direct link to the Doom video tweet:

https://x.com/completeskeptic/status/2099925687465570372

thih9 14 hours ago||
The doom video is also in the article itself (headline: "Doom").

I suppose this is the same video as the one from the parent comment, but I don't know for sure - I don't have a twitter account and the above link doesn't work for me.

ErneX 13 hours ago|||
I linked to the tweet that has the video because if you are not signed in you cannot see the whole thread of tweets.

I can see the individual tweets in the browser while not signed in though.

yehat 14 hours ago|||
[flagged]
einpoklum 13 hours ago|||
But when their system is given the instruction "do not fire, simply dodge" - it doesn't "simply dodge", it actually gets close to the fleshy pink demon rather than keeping its distance. Or am I misunderstanding?
anthonypasq 12 hours ago||
i think its just telling the model that it cant output a shoot action
lelandbatey 13 hours ago||
Link to a raw MP4 of the video, from the parent article: https://framerusercontent.com/assets/rlL7ImEbISFoYt3IJEHHfvj...

It's in the parent article under a section named "Doom" in case that asset URL ever changes.

wg0 5 hours ago||
Can I put it as Air Traffic Controller? With similar error rates as humans?

That would be the litmus test.

"Does not hallucinate" is not the same as "is never wrong".

So the ATC test could be the benchmark.

copperx 5 hours ago|
Not hallucinating is easy when you don't produce strings.
vintermann 2 hours ago||
Hallucinating as we use the word really only applies to generative AI. Non generative AIs can't hallucinate, they can just be wrong.
10c8 7 hours ago||
Wow, this is really cool. If this holds up to scrutiny, and has a decent context window (+16k), it suddenly changes our project's status from "cool concept, too slow and expensive to release" to "doable", just like that.

Just joined the waitlist, excited to try it out!

mercat 5 hours ago|
afaik Jev's context window is 32k
postalcoder 11 hours ago|
This has the potential to be huge for computer use.

OpenAI has been teasing how fast computer use is with their models running on Cerebras chips but the difference here is a burning hole in your pocket.

Gecko4072 4 hours ago|
Like which elements to select? Similar to the doom and wikipedia runs?
postalcoder 1 hour ago||
Yeah. Computer use is essentially a model navigating the OS-provided accessibility tree. I imagine a model trained on it would operate the computer exactly as we saw it control Doom.

https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ac...

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