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Posted by albelfio 16 hours ago

Introducing System One Models and Jev(typesafe.ai)
1451 points | 410 commentspage 5
padolsey 5 hours ago|
I'd love to know if Jev is still fundamentally LLM-shaped in architecture. Like is it using a single forward pass with a learned readout over the predefined options (i.e. a discriminative head on a transformer, no decoding), or something else? I did similar things for zero-shot criterion-based classification using a 4B Qwen model but could not reach the level of intelligence they've got here. Tho speed/cheapness was similar.
virajk_31 5 hours ago||
Great to see something new..

However I don't understand how are they claiming zero hallucination, how does giving confidence score fix hallucination? or am I missing something here?

mixtureoftakes 14 hours ago||
Doom demo is beyond impressive, even scary
bigglebear 10 hours ago|
It's very misleading. If I'm actually playing a game I don't get the coordinates of enemies sent back to me so that I can feed into my mouse to snap my crosshair to. It's looking through walls too, because it's working off structured state in text form. You could re-create this whole demo without using AI. Have an LLM generate the state machine for you and no model is required to run it.
someguynamedq 59 minutes ago||
The impressive part is that it is low latency enough to serve high quality answers at game speed through the model instead of a pre generated ad-hoc machine.
niutech 3 hours ago||
How does Jev compare with encoder language models like BERT/RoBERTa/DistilBERT, which could also be used for text classification?
edot 11 hours ago||
Very cool! Can you explain when I would use this vs. training a standard ML model on my data? Suppose I had a fraud dataset with features like customer ID, amount, merchant, online or in-person, etc. - I can't imagine that a general model like Jev would predict this more accurately or cheaply than even a basic XGBoost model trained on my dataset (one that I could build in a few minutes by asking Codex to build it). Where does Jev add value here?
hangrymoon01 4 hours ago|
you will need to collect data for every decision/usecase and then train a model. But this can be used for different use cases with just a prompt.

Founders response to a similar question on X: https://x.com/CompleteSkeptic/status/2100067328620896408?s=2...

pasting it here: zero-shot + general == programmable

I would assume any extreme scale narrow task could then be fine-tuned for, but we'll see - I suspect putting it all in shared cognitive core has bit maintainability/generalization benefits

flowerboy-t 4 hours ago||
do you all see the use cases being similar to what you might use Fastino's Gliner models for? i see similar differentiation from general purpose LLMs in the sense that they can take natural-language input and return outputs adherent to a user-defined schema.

https://fastino.ai/blog/gliner2-5-span-free-information-extr...

im thinking about how well Jev could be used to replace a current LLM-as-Judge evaluation workflows, specifically on chat transcript data (think ~1,500 tokens) i wonder if the reasoning usually required pushes it a bit out of scope. didnt see anything published about constraints on the state size, so would be curious to hear about that.

mary776 4 hours ago|
definitely seems like a modified version of GLiNER2 or 2.5: - encoder-based (no text generation) - multiple tasks in a single forward pass - deterministic outputs - constraint-based classification
himata4113 15 hours ago||
They never show exactly how they use it? Only a bunch of animations of it 'working'. Would like to see the actual code used for the demos!
zenlikethat 13 hours ago||
It's a bit hastily put together, but I made a dspy fork where you can add a decorator to automatically use TypeSafe where possible on Signatures. It shows a fair bit of what actual, hands on usage looks like.

https://github.com/typesafeainate/dspy-typesafeify

snthpy 7 hours ago||
DSPy seems like the right comparison and this is the first comment I've seen mentioning it.

Thanks for putting this together. I'm surprised the cost saving is so little though. I expected much more based on the post.

ricardobeat 15 hours ago||
The doom demo shows the program state / query.
iforgotmypasswo 9 hours ago||
Could you use this to build a proactive memory formation and retrieval system for LLMs that runs lightning fast?

Last 32k of connect + Summary of current task: Did we learn something useful here (true/false)? What is the category to file it under? Then notify the LLM to file it away.

What class of memory might be useful here? Model gives probability to each item in the list. Short description of all memories ordered by tagged class is used in the next round. Are any of these memories useful in the current context, such that they will inform the model and help in its task (yes/no)?

I’m sure there’s some fine tuning to be had, but this sure seems like the basis for a substantially better proactive memory system that works around an existing LLM conversation.

If I’m understanding what this does and how this works (generic input, intelligent classification with probabilities, rapid and cheap), this is absolutely nuts.

mentalgear 4 hours ago||
Overall this seems like a classifier that gives weighted scores per custom labels. It's certainly useful, but whether it brings higher quality than an LLM in structured output mode has to be seen in objective benchmarks.
StevenWaterman 4 hours ago|
Zero shot classifier indeed. Reminiscent of asking an llm a yes/no question, constraining the output to either yes or no, and looking at the logits directly

And each question is a separate single token model completion done in parallel

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