Top
Best
New

Posted by afilipovski 15 hours ago

Backups Aren't Simple(filipovski.net)
254 points | 155 commentspage 4
overtone1000 6 hours ago|
+1 for restic.

ZFS snapshots + restic backups to backblaze for my homeserver. My secret sauce is a healtchecks.io instance that blows up my phone if ZFS scrubs throw any errors, when local snapshots fail, or when restic checks or backups fail.

Gud 6 hours ago||
I use ZFS and do off site backups using rsync.net.
readthenotes1 13 hours ago||
"Obviously, none of this is worth anything if you don’t actually test restores."

One of my teachers claimed that contrary to common behavior, no one actually valued backups; it was restores that were worth paying for.

gerdesj 12 hours ago||
Try running a business on that basis - where do the restores come from? 8)

We charge our customers for backup storage by volume and that includes an annual demonstration of recovery. We fire up some or all of their systems on our gear in isolation and show that they are reasonably functional.

Your teacher's comment is riffing on the well trod lines of: "heights don't kill people, it's depths that kill people", which is all about perspective. This is is not related to "guns don't kill people ..." which is about agency.

al_borland 12 hours ago|||
It is true that very few people proactively care about backups. It’s like flossing. People know they’re supposed to do it, but in the moment it feels like a waste of time and energy, when there are more important things to do.

When data is lost, or decay takes over, the value can skyrocket. Depending on what is lost, someone may be willing to pay 100x when they would have spent on backup in order to get their data back, this is why data recovery services can basically charge whatever they want.

My assumption is the Venn diagram between people who pass the marshmallow test, and those who proactively backup their systems, has a lot of overlap.

OkayPhysicist 12 hours ago||||
Running a business on that basis would look like the white(ish)-hat version of ransomware. "Oh, your data is gone? How much is it really worth to you?"
bitwize 12 hours ago|||
"It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end."
TheCondor 13 hours ago||
It is a special sensation when you go to your hand rolled backup "solution" to make some simple recoveries and start finding problems. It is a complex mix of not dread but disgust, sick to your stomach, self-anger, and loss. I can only image what that's like with like all of your children's baby pictures being the lost material. Borg and restic are fantastic, it still seems like some sort of dummy proof mode might be desirable, all the features in the world and they have some some reasonably sane policy or something that includes verifications.

On the flip side of that though, really and truly, I've restored a laptop from a timemachine backup and it came back damn nearly identical and that was magical.

innocent_name 12 hours ago||
>Borg ... fantastic

I needed to temporarily move off 20TB from my NAS and bought a Hetzner storage box.

I wanted to encrypt the data before sending it so i went with the borg ssh mount. Long story short, borg failed a couple of times due to https://github.com/borgbackup/borg/issues/7672, i resumed it per documentation and got 2gb of silently corrupted data. There was no way to do data integrity checks due to broken pipes and there was no option to resume the job from the previous point either. I couldn't afford to go with the s3, backblaze wasn't an option due to placing trust into their proprietary client doing the encryption and i got majorly screwed in the end.

Dylan16807 5 hours ago||
That issue happens when the repo is corrupted? That's not the cause of the failure then.

Also you must have been unaware of Backblaze B2? It doesn't have a proprietary client, and it launched 11 years ago only a couple months after attic was forked to create borg.

BetterThanSober 5 hours ago||
Backups isn't real until it's restored

don't be like me folks

QuiEgo 7 hours ago||
Time Machine (to NAS) + iCloud (w/ ADP) + local copy is the lowest friction path I have found.
darvo31 10 hours ago||
Yep, backup is a verb, restore is a noun. Testing restores is where the real work begins.
senectus1 12 hours ago||
Amazon are finding this out atm :-P

https://archive.is/Ay7RJ

pizzafeelsright 12 hours ago||
I don't want backups. I want synced duplicated data in geographically separated by shared credentials.
offmycloud 12 hours ago||
> I don't want backups. I want synced duplicated data in geographically separated by shared credentials.

If you accidentally delete something, how long does it take for the delete to propagate to all of your geographically separated datacenters? You need some sort of point-in-time snapshots to be able to recover from accidents and silent corruption.

bob1029 11 hours ago||
> You need some sort of point-in-time snapshots to be able to recover from accidents and silent corruption.

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/versio...

layer8 11 hours ago|||
Sounds like you are the second type of people mentioned in the article.
keithnz 11 hours ago||
that's not really the same thing, what you are describing is redundancy so failure in one (or more) place doesn't bring the system down. Backups are about preventing data loss. Data loss can happen in many different ways, not just a system crashing and burning. It can be deliberately/accidently done such that it would be sync'd everywhere.
bibelo 5 hours ago||
> as long as you run restores every 6 months

uh no, in a company, as a sysadmin, you try your backup files at least every month

PunchyHamster 13 hours ago|
So is apparently making readable site.

Software like https://restic.net/ does a good job. Few choices of backend

Accepts stuff from pipe too so you can just pipe mysqldump or pg_dumpall without intermediate files

Very decent options for checking repo integrity, personally (well, at work too, we use it on few hundred user machines and servers) I also added "roll a dice for backup and try to restore it" test script to make sure it is working

Decent deduplication too so "store year's worth of weekly snapshot" is very sensible strategy once you exclude the "constantly changing and useless" (caches etc.) files out of it

can mount FUSE directory with all backups on sensible OSes.

https://kopia.io/ does the same +GUI but a bit worse on CLI front (it insists on keeping local config which makes scripting a bit more involved, but not much)

LilBytes 12 hours ago||
I'm using Restic & Backrest (https://garethgeorge.github.io/backrest/) everywhere I can, they're both exceptional OSS.

IMHO, the easiest way to perform a restore test is to use your production backups to refresh a lesser environment on a weekly cadence. Naturally this has to be appropriate to the type of data you're restoring, e.g., our E2E (end to end) testing environment has been built to the same risk tolerances of production so it's suitable for production data and the PII (Personally Identifiable Information) it hosts. If this isn't in your own risk tolerances, you can still perform the same test but ensure the data from prod is anonymised or alternatively destroyed, and perform a second restore after production restore with the dataset that preceeded it that has no PII data or similar.

With this the E2E tests confirm the backups are expected and you can tick a box that when shit does eventually hit the fan, data corruption isn't a problem. Normal caveats apply, you must make sure your backups are immutable so they cannot be modified or changed _after_ the tests have been ran.

Scottn1 6 hours ago||
I was using Restic + Backrest as well for my personal Windows machines and it was great. Then I found out that Backrest stores the vault password (among other things) in a simple plaintext file on your local hard drive. Not sure if this applies to all platforms but for Windows users that is a huge security hole in today's environment.

https://github.com/garethgeorge/backrest/issues/1047

bt1a 12 hours ago||
importantly, does your die have a side that corresponds to a multi-continental cataclysmic natural disaster of magnitude only known unknown to pre-recorded-history
More comments...