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Posted by vertigoruntime 14 hours ago

Astra for Law(openai.com)
496 points | 564 commentspage 4
ayushiyerji 8 hours ago|
What we contributed to Reddit and Arxiv voluntarily before, what we contribute as traces right now are all being used to build business verticals by OpenAI and Anthropic. All these business verticals are being used for is more trace collection which would only strengthen these models and render most humans useless because the ceiling for 1000 swarms of Agents to learn is much higher than an average human. These companies clearly can identify the relevant traces for these business verticals which only strengthens the argument that NS was built on someone else's traces.
pletnes 14 hours ago||
Just like breaking crypto in the age of cloud is more about cost than time, this will lead to legal attacks based on the same principle. The biggest wallet wins.
xmprt 14 hours ago||
> The biggest wallet wins

This was already always the case. If anything, making this more accessible will reduce the barrier to entry for whether or not it's worth your time to take on a case. Instead of 50 lawyers spending 100s of hours on a case, you can have 1 or 2 lawyers + Astra working on it and if there's a case you can add more real lawyers.

3asgfq 14 hours ago||
There are other possibilities:

1) Lawyers are not as naive as software engineers and will fight being replaces by new laws.

2) If they are replaced, OpenAI will take a cut commensurate with the amount in dispute (OAI, please credit me for the idea in the IPO brochure).

xmprt 14 hours ago||
Many lawyers are owners/partners compared with software engineers who are more like cogs in the machine. They also bill hourly/contingency per case compared to engineers who are salaried. If a partner in a firm thinks they can take on more cases because of AI assistance then they will because that's just more money in their pockets.
mcmcmc 14 hours ago|||
That’s how the legal system in the US has always worked though
drakythe 14 hours ago|||
With regard to certain legal questions this has always been the case. AT&T Fought the US Government for 20 years and eventually won because the government gave up. Without some kind of national anti-SLAPP law we're all one irritated oligarch away from having our lives financially ruined.

I am curious what level of trust established law firms treat LLMs with.

umeshunni 14 hours ago||
That's already the case in law because you could just hire the best or most lawyers.
Digory 9 hours ago||
This seems like a very similar set of tools to Anthropic. But I’ve enjoyed using the various frontier models to criticize each other.

Using recursive loops, the output has gone from a high school level intern to a 2nd year lawyer in about a year. It still doesn’t beat the experts, but so much legal work is (legally significant) pedantry, not legal philosophy.

AI will not kill off lawyers, or reduce the amount of litigation. It will increase volume and velocity.

kevinsundar 8 hours ago||
Can someone explain to me the economics of AI and how it intersects with billing by the hour?

I think there would be a strong incentive not to use tools that speed up your work because you'd effectively be able to bill less time?

I'm sure there are some firms out there with more work than people, but still wouldn't it be more effective to hire another human who can then bill at a high rate for many hours?

alansaber 25 minutes ago|
Lawyers are client-facing. Client wants lawyers to use AI. There are justifiable reasons to use AI (in measured doses). Hence, firms will use AI. They already have all kinds of strategems to increase their billing which AI slots into.
elpakal 11 hours ago||
I find the watermarking dynamic to be really interesting in the legal space, as more large model providers provide increasingly powerful legal capabilities, and adoption (presumably) also increases. Attorneys aren’t the same as developers as their work can be traced back to them, and there are personal bar licenses and reputations at stake. I wonder if knowing the likelihood that AI generated something helps or hurts in that respect.

I also see a lot of watermark removal services popping up as a result.

alansaber 24 minutes ago|
Watermarking is just one step. We could easily see regulatory crackdown, and the requirement to provide IE a whitelisted email to use a legal product.
capital_guy 8 hours ago||
I have always felt like LLMs are uniquely suitable for legal work. I really have trouble believing we will have hardly any legal assistants and paralegals going forward when these LLMs are so incredible at spotting issues with arguments, figuring out citations, and doing semantic search.
MisterMunchkin 6 hours ago||
It’s a bad day to be a lawslop company. When you’re reliant on other companies to do all of the AI part of your AI product, they can just train on your traffic and eventually eat you.
whazor 12 hours ago||
The most interesting use case in my mind is skipping law suits. Obviously you need lawyers in court. But lawyers are people you are basically paying to fight for you.

Instead, if you resolve your dispute outside of court, you don’t need a lawyer. If both parties use ChatGPT to find the relevant laws or read contracts, they could come to an agreement without expensive legal fees.

reactordev 12 hours ago|
except for those pesky things called rights
LandenLove 11 hours ago||
There is a lot of stuff here that I don't understand, but the concept of law firms giving user reviews is quite funny to me. Those reviews are going to be the most non-legally binding reviews ever written lol.

"Felt like a significant step toward legal-focused AI."

"Showed strength across key aspects of legal research."

bezko 14 hours ago|
Will it be able to sue itself?
kansface 14 hours ago|
That’s a great question for Astra for Law.
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