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Posted by JonSchneider 13 hours ago

Bonsai 2 27B: Near-Lossless Compression in a 9x Smaller Footprint(prismml.com)
440 points | 127 commentspage 3
flutetornado 10 hours ago|
GPT Astra did some benchmarking on the DGX Spark. Speed: 34.38 tokens/sec for generation.

Seems like we don't have a drafter model yet so it could not test with speculative decoding on. ngram speculative decoding did not help too much either - not enough accepted tokens.

Smaller size I suppose does not mean better performance in this case - we maybe limited by Spark's low memory bandwidth.

mmastrac 7 hours ago||
That's a rough place to land on a spark. It seems unlikely to be memory bandwidth at this model size, but maybe just lack of tuned kernels? The chip is missing some CUDA features but with tuning you should be able to hit way more than that even without a drafter.
flutetornado 2 hours ago||
I was wondering if those ternary bits get expanded into full floats internally in the kernels - you’re probably right about lack of tuned kernels. I’m not sure you could just tune your way out of that easily though. Any suggestions on trying particular solutions?
cmrdporcupine 10 hours ago||
What are you getting for prefill?
flutetornado 9 hours ago||
450 with PTQ_01 and 900 with the other PQ2_0.
respectattentio 8 hours ago||
Never heard of Bonsai before, but that looks great and promising for local on-device inference.

Yet, seems like there is still another year for improvements.

I like local models (but not mainly using them) for offline needs.

avaer 7 hours ago||
LLM quants seem to eerily converge to modern/not so modern graphics techniques. You wouldn't think it would apply but it's obvious in hindsight. In fact mining graphics ideas is probably a good inspiration for efficient LLM architecture.

For example, the Hadamard activation transform used here feels a lot like multiplying Fourier basis ala DFT; strong parallels to how image codecs work to make the residuals more compressible (especially discrete block codecs like are used in GPU compressed textures).

I thought I was being clever suggesting that you could even abuse texture decode units to efficiently sample compressed LLMs with hardware; turns out Apple foundation models are already doing this [1].

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.13575

mpweiher 1 hour ago||
Is it just me or are local models getting better (catching up) a lot faster than the frontier models are getting better (creating distance)?

If true, that would be a very welcome development.

cmrdporcupine 10 hours ago||
What I'd love to see is this done for DS4.1 Flash.

That would bring it down to the point where it can fit in 128GB on things like the Spark or Strix Halo.

z2 12 hours ago||
I'd love to see a Bonsai model start with a 100B+ parameter model and get that down to <30 GB. But maybe at that point we call it Topiary?
all2 10 hours ago||
Other names that occur to me: Orchard, Forest, Stand (of trees).
codebje 4 hours ago||
Bonsai Dai ?
Dwedit 7 hours ago||
I tried it on my 6GB GPU and got 0.67 tokens per second. Need more than 6GB to run it well.
hedora 9 hours ago||
RAM requirements? My current rule of thumb is “a byte per parameter”, but I doubt this runs in 1/9th that (~ 3GiB).

Also, perf speedup?

kennywinker 4 hours ago||
Without context, it should be number of params * 1.76 (the “effective bits per weight”) / 8

So for this one, 27B * 1.76 / 8 = 5.94 GB

For speed, far as I can tell it depends if your gpu is memory bandwidth bound or (mostly older gpus) processing bound. If it’s memory bandwidth bound, and your gpu gets 300GB/s, that’s:

300GB/s / 5.98 GB = 50.5t/s.

Realistically it’s probably a bit slower, but that is your theoretical maximum.

jjcm 9 hours ago||
I'm seeing around 7.9GB of ram, 120 tokens/s on a 6000 pro blackwell.
zhiyan 6 hours ago||
Awesome results. Opens up doors for a lot of people.
abraxas 12 hours ago|
I'm not following the local mdoel scene too closely but this seems quite amazing. Is this able to be run on Apple silicon too?
Havoc 12 hours ago||
Their first 27B bonsai was able to run on an iphone.
kamranjon 12 hours ago||
"Ternary Bonsai 2 27B reaches up to 143 tokens/second on NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 and 46.8 tokens/second on M5 Max. On an RTX 4090, Ternary Bonsai 2 27B consumes just 0.714 mWh/token, making it 40% more energy-efficient than an 8B model running in full-precision."
pizza234 12 hours ago|||
Their mention of the 5090 is bit odd, since on 32 GB GPUs, Q6 fits while having better quality. Very interesting model for 16 GB GPUs though!
pwython 6 hours ago|||
Sometimes you want a decent model running in the background that doesn't take up all the VRAM.
blurbleblurble 5 hours ago||
Or maybe even to run parallel threads of the same model!
sisve 12 hours ago|||
They mention 5090 with regards to speed, Q6 will not have that speed?

And speed matters a lot for many use cases

selectodude 11 hours ago|||
150 tokens per second on a ternary model implies that it’s GPU bound, I’d bet a Q6 model is even faster because it’s existed longer and seen more optimization. You’d have to be insane to not run an NVFP4 quant over a ternary quant on Blackwell if they both fit.
wincy 5 hours ago|||
With Ninfer and Qwen 3.8 27b it uses a groupwise int mixed quant, and it gets 160 tokens/sec. The mixed quant is between 4 and 6 bits.
azatom 11 hours ago|||
it is like "my fridge is 2mkm (millikilometer) from my desk" m=0.001 h=3600 it should be just Ws or just J
_kulang 11 hours ago||
What’s wrong with milliwatt hours?
azatom 10 hours ago||
https://xkcd.com/2946/

https://xkcd.com/3038/

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