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Posted by joeriddles 11 hours ago

How to Write with an LLM(sockpuppet.org)
151 points | 85 comments
S-E-P 10 hours ago|
I fear in the future people will read even less because of how often people cheap out and use AI to write. I know the author of this article tells you never to use a single word it suggests, however I still, while reading, am checking for any amount of AI used. This makes reading less enjoyable, and even a bit stressful.

If you can't spend the time to write it, why should anyone read it?

Everything I post is from my own finger tips, only to get a reply from someone using a bot. I'm tired.

iqp 3 hours ago||
> If you can't spend the time to write it, why should anyone read it?

100%. We're producing more content, faster, than ever before but ... most of it is just click-producing garbage that won't stand the test of time.

jakeinspace 9 hours ago|||
Excessive generative AI output devalues all communication media unfortunately. As a greater and greater portion of text, imagery, audio, and video come to be synthetic, I don't see why anybody would be motivated to do deep reading, or listening, or analysis of said media. It's frightening to think what that might do to our civilization, almost like putting us back into a weird version of the ancient past when nobody was literate, save the priest.

Maybe humans can adapt to care about generated content and treat it with the same emotional weight that human communication has. I don't know if that's good or not.

sixtyj 9 hours ago|||
There is a recent PISA research that students slowly decline in understanding the long reads.

E.g. in one country, 21% of high school students do not even achieve “sufficient reading literacy”…

So the question should be - what are we going to do with this? LLM can produce texts but we as people will not be able to understand anyway…

About PISA research for example here: https://www.edweek.org/leadership/reading-ability-craters-on...

watwut 1 hour ago||
> LLM can produce texts but we as people will not be able to understand anyway

LLM generated text oftentimes just do not have the point to be understood. LLM is training you to NOT read, because trying to do close reading of LLM generated text is usually a mistake. There is no deeper there. Either it was correct on the surface things or it is a gibberish.

Insimwytim 9 hours ago|||
You can't even watch funny animal compilations anymore!
jakeinspace 9 hours ago||
Probably the worst part
boplicity 9 hours ago|||
> If you can't spend the time to write it, why should anyone read it?

That's actually a legitimate question, and one I've been thinking about, as I've been using LLM tools to compile factual information based on various search tools it uses. The workflow gets sources, fact checks them, filters them according to my needs, and gives me clean urls for source information to hand off to an editor for writing a short listing. It's very hard for the editor to do a much better job at this type of writing; the real benefit of the work was in the research, which was handled by the LLM. The rest is basically just putting the facts in the right order, with some guidance on style, preferred word choices, etc. I'm not comfortable with this at all, as giving work to an LLM that a human could do strikes me as wrong. But using LLM tools gives me a big competitive advantage (for now), in the space I'm doing this in.

derektank 9 hours ago|||
>I'm not comfortable with this at all, as giving work to an LLM that a human could do strikes me as wrong

Where does this feeling come from? Is it just because the work is complex? We’re all (excepting maybe the amish) comfortable with using at least some automation, be it mechanical or digital, elsewhere in our lives

boplicity 9 hours ago||
Not sure. I don't like LLMs inserting itself into human to human communication, as it can shape our thinking in many ways. Delegating this also makes it much harder for a person to become a subject-matter expert, which is a real loss.
loloquwowndueo 9 hours ago|||
> compile factual information based on various search tools it uses. The workflow gets sources, fact checks them, filters them according to my needs, and gives me clean urls for source information to hand off to an editor for writing a short listing.

What’s preventing the editor from using one of your prompts/tooling and replacing you entirely?

There’s zero value in sharing ai-generated output unless your ai has access to something nobody else’s does on which to base things. If all it’s doing is web research you should share your prompt instead. That way people don’t have to deal with ai-written walls of text.

boplicity 9 hours ago||
> What’s preventing the editor from using one of your prompts/tooling and replacing you entirely?

Well, they don't have the many other pieces of the business in place that makes this work meaningful. They certainly could try, though. If they succeeded, this aspect wouldn't be what made the difference, though.

siscia 1 hour ago|||
> If you can't spend the time to write it, why should anyone read it?

Because the value of writing are not the words on a piece of paper but the idea they convey.

Politicians speech are not worth listening too because they have a copywriter polish them?

Teacher assistant homeworks are not worth to do, because they are made by a TA and not by the course professor?

Of course there are writing as: "Hey ChatGPT write me a piece around coding with LLMs" and yeah, those are not worth reading.

But most of the writing is usually, these are the ideas, this is how the idea are structured together, now let's review them and then let's get a nice prose out of it.

graemep 58 minutes ago||
"Politicians speech are not worth listening too because they have a copywriter polish them?"

It often makes them less informative and a lot less sincere.

ferngodfather 2 hours ago|||
People on my FOSS project couldn't see the issue with their AI slopped documentation contributions.

On one hand I'm like, yeah fair enough it needed writing and something is better than nothing.

On the other I know nobody wants to read it now because it's just word vomit rather than how a human would write something they'd like another human to read.

I hate it so much.

LtWorf 47 minutes ago||
On Debian we recently voted whether to permit or forbid llm usage (spoiler, AI usage at will won).

One person was arguing that they need llm because english isn't their first language and then it helps them write better and be understood. I was incapable of reading their (extremely long) email of arguments; I tried but my mind just went elsewhere as my eyes were moving through the lines.

At the very end there was a disclaimer that llm had been used to "aid" in writing that very email.

Poor guy thinks he's communicating better but all he's doing is making his emails completely unreadable. It's a sad state of affairs.

vlfig 33 minutes ago||
There is now increased evolutionary pressure for rules protecting scarcity to become norm. Communication media will likely adopt limits on the size and throughput of messages.
matheusmoreira 3 hours ago|||
> If you can't spend the time to write it, why should anyone read it?

Because the information in the post could be valuable regardless of human or LLM involvement.

californical 2 hours ago||
But how much slop are you willing to wade through, hoping to find a nugget of insight?
matheusmoreira 1 hour ago||
More than the average person, I suppose. For some reason, AI writing isn't as irritating to me as it seems to be for everyone else.

I treat it the same way I treat human writing: by speed reading most of the article so I can find the points the author is trying to make and decide whether I should read the entire thing.

beebmam 9 hours ago|||
I don't ever watch TV or streaming shows anymore. It's been a huge improvement in my life. It's the same with reading. Reading is mostly a waste of my time, with some notable exceptions. I'm glad I spend way less time doing each of these!
S-E-P 8 hours ago||
It's sad that reading has become that way for you.

I love reading, but I mostly read non-fiction and I'm a bit of an amateur history buff. Last time I read a fiction book I was left feeling like I was preached to by an alien about how life doesn't really matter (sci-fi authors will often do that). The state of literature is pretty dire.

shimman 9 hours ago|||
Just read people you can trust. Why are you giving yourself all this busy work?

Just make your own tree of material to read. You should have a couple dozen writers/journalists you admire, look at who these people read then start reading those people, then you repeat the cycle.

Don't waste your time reading anything new, most new things are bad. Most ideas we struggle with, are ideas we have been discussing since the written record was invented out of necessity.

Anything new worth reading will assuredly make your way to you if you are at all connected.

NuclearPM 9 hours ago||
Agreed completely. (This reply took me 0.4 seconds to generate.)
thombles 9 hours ago||
Even if you don't want style advice from an LLM (I generally don't, not for blogging), for a technical blogger "please check this post for factual accuracy" is a good way to not look like an idiot. Often it complains about hyperbole, which I tend to ignore since there's no point blogging unless you have some firm opinions, but on at least one occasion it pointed me towards some documentation that undermined my entire post - and led to a much better one a week later once I'd processed and applied that new information. Thanks, LLM.
simonw 9 hours ago||
I do this all the time. It's shocking how well it works. A year or two ago suggesting that someone use LLMs for fact checking would get you laughed out of a room, but today the good ones (Fable, GPT-5.6/6) with a search tool enabled are genuinely excellent at this.

They can even retrieve articles you link to and check that you aren't misrepresenting them.

benoau 5 hours ago||
I do something like this with code all the time, “is this idiomatic <foo>?”, I find it very helpful.
ralphington 3 hours ago||
Hyperbole = strong opinions? If you're stating your 'strong opinions' as fact, then you deserve the push back. If you're stating your strong opinions as strong opinions, then fair game.
ferngodfather 2 hours ago|||
You say this but fact and opinion are very similar and not at all easy to distinguish.

For instance, if I said the grass is green vs if I said the grass looks nice vs if I said the grass is doing well and looks how it should vs if I said in my opinion the grass is healthier than its ever been.

matheusmoreira 3 hours ago||||
> If you're stating your 'strong opinions' as fact

Is there anybody on this site who isn't?

thombles 3 hours ago|||
If I want to say that iOS is useless for developing Bluetooth 5 features then this is true for all practical purposes and doesn’t deserve elaboration in my text, even if Apple’s API technically exposes one or two tiny pieces.
jjhfarmer 30 minutes ago||
Writing is thinking. You are outsourcing the process of thinking through your thoughts so you can communicate and understand them.
thunfischtoast 2 hours ago||
I think it's good advice. I find it a bit funny the author said to not use a single word coming out of the LLM, but they probably did just that because I never heard a human being say "load-bearing" before but now it's all over the place, also used here. Or I don't get the irony.
duckerduck 52 minutes ago||
The "load bearing" term has become a bit of a meme, given the author is familiar with these AI-isms, we can assume it's a subtle joke.
LtWorf 44 minutes ago||
In the simpsons there was a load bearing poster in their home, IIRC.
Retr0id 8 hours ago||
> Present the original and new writing to the model and ask it which is better.

LLMs have absolutely terrible taste when it comes to writing. I don't find their feedback useful at all, beyond trivial spelling/grammar mistakes, which you don't really need an LLM for in the first place.

Proofreading is all you need.

Edit: I do sometimes ask an LLM for a fact-check, though.

ttctciyf 1 hour ago||
Yeah, the best advice is: Don't. Write it yourself; make judgements; learn.

In general use today, AI primarily functions as a stupidity amplifier: it empowers dumb people to do dumb things more pervasively, with less effort, and at unprecedented scale.

We're moving into an era of artificially enhanced stupidity.

tptacek 8 hours ago||
That’s what this is: it’s mechanical proofing.
Retr0id 8 hours ago|||
As a "proof" of their poor judgement, take a paragraph you like. Ask the LLM to rewrite it to make it better (which I think we both agree will not make it better), and then in a fresh session ask it which it thinks is best. It'll almost always pick its own writing, even when it sucks.
tptacek 8 hours ago||
Right, I agree: that’s exactly not what I’m recommending.
Retr0id 8 hours ago||
You are specifically recommending asking the model which of two versions is better (the quote in my top-level comment).

We both agree that they are poor "make it better" machines, but I also believe they are bad A/B testers and I'm using the former to demonstrate the latter.

tptacek 8 hours ago||
You are writing both paragraphs. You’re specifically not asking a model to make a better paragraph. That would be a load-bearing debacle.
Retr0id 8 hours ago||
It doesn't matter who writes what, what matters is that LLMs have a preference for LLM-shaped writing. By A/B testing against an LLMs opinion, you are optimizing in the direction of LLM prose even if the LLM never writes any of the prose itself.
ameliaquining 7 hours ago||
LLM style is not literally anticorrelated with quality. There are some things that they tend to do poorly, but you're not going to do those because you're writing the text yourself. If you have it judge your writing, and are careful to avoid the failure modes that the post goes into, it can be helpful by serving as a competent editor that doesn't share your blind spots.
Retr0id 8 hours ago|||
I don't think it's a useful substitute for actual proofreading though, unless you're truly in a time crunch. When I proofread I don't just look for mistakes, I try to put myself into the position of a prospective audience member. LLMs seem to have absolutely no concept of "theory of the reader's mind". If I'm going for extra high effort, I have friends read it, usually asking them to identify anything that was unclear or hard to follow.
pmg101 1 hour ago||
It's extremely refreshing reading good human prose isn't it! It's like when I would read a newly-written Paul Graham essay 20 years ago.

He also uses rule of three and the phrase "load-bearing", just for fun, which elicited a wry smile from me.

Thanks OP for a pleasant start to my day!

abc3354 10 hours ago||
This article was so much better than what I though it would be

Does anyone know about "Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace" ? Seems like an interesting book

cbfrench 8 hours ago||
It’s good—better than the much-revered Elements of Style, imho, which is overly prescriptive and frankly unhelpful at turns, even if it’s well written.

But my all-time favorite is Virginia Tufte’s Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style. It illustrates the variety of English sentence structures in an ordered way with a plethora of examples. The approach is not prescriptive; rather, it allows you inductively to develop a feel for the syntactical rhythms of the language.

Also, I love Stanley Fish’s How to Write a Sentence: And How to Read One. It’s a lovely, entertaining little book, filled with Fish’s insights as an eminent literary critic. What I appreciate most about the book is that Fish walks you through a number of examples and explains how and why they work, so you can walk away as both a better writer and a better reader.

bobmarleybiceps 9 hours ago|||
Yeah it's very short, but I can't remember if I read all of it, or just flipped through pieces. It has good advice and I think fairly "famous." (edit: this reminded me I still have my copy :-D)

I know someone in a profession that does a lot of writing, and it blew my mind how clearly feedback was communicated by a superior. Made me wish tech people had better written communication skills. ;-;

stackghost 10 hours ago||
Can't vouch for that but I can vouch for `Dreyer's English` as both hilarious (if you're the sort of person who relishes finding le mot juste, like me) and excellent as a style guide.
brlewis 2 hours ago||
I agree with the central thesis, but disagree with some details. I wrote a blog response: https://writing.brlewis.com/posts/2026/llm-copyeditor/
tripvexa 49 minutes ago||
But why would you want to write with the help of an llm, you should be moving in the other direction. Don't let the creativity die!
awithrow 9 hours ago|
I've seen this in action as well. The biggest value by far is seeing the overused phrases and tics in your writing style. The prompt I like is to tell it to highlight and flag passive voice and run ons since those are my major pain points. I can also tell when its getting out of "real" advice since it'll offer the same "trim 10-15%". Also important to tell it to highlight specifics otherwise it'll give vague editorial advice that isn't anchored. Another fun exercise is to submit other authors writing as well. Say a short story from a magazine. Some of the edits are legit, but do it enough times and you'll start to see the same generic writing advice gets applies to just about any input.

another iteresting thing models can do is to highlight and notice themes and motifs in a piece. I find that helpful when thinking about a piece of work. Might be obvious ones, sometimes it can be subtle themes. Good for stirring your own brain.

Retr0id 8 hours ago|
> overused phrases and tics in your writing style

In the extreme these can be annoying, but more often I find them kinda charming, as an expression of the author's personality.

tptacek 8 hours ago|||
Simple example from this piece: I scrubbed 7 instances of the word “just” from it. Obviously, Emacs can do that on their own, but you have to know to look for that word, and every other one.
grey-area 2 hours ago|||
You are erasing yourself in doing this, not improving your writing.

If you want to improve your writing, read more.

awithrow 6 hours ago|||
Agreed and depends on the writing. It's a very helpful tool though to be able to flag and highlight that sort of thing
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