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Posted by ilreb 1 day ago

OpenJev(openjev.com)
623 points | 260 commentspage 2
wg0 19 hours ago|
Important - Jev is way too different, the greatest innovation are its speed and that it is guaranteed to NOT generate a token from a given set of tokens hence you can drive state machines intelligently.
ritzaco 19 hours ago||
TypeSafe also makes an adaptor available which lets you use traditional LLMs as Jev if you just want the interface without the model https://github.com/typesafe-ai/system-one-adapter-python
druskacik 22 hours ago||
I'm really interested in technical details behind Jev (not this), how it can work so fast and so cheap. It's probably large (must be since the performance is so good) but somehow still fast, so it must include some really non-trivial stuff. The price suggests it may be runnable locally, but who knows.

If it was possible to re-create it as an open-weight, it would be exciting!

snek_case 21 hours ago||
It might be conceptually similar to a single-output-token LLM (sort of). LLMs output next-token probabilities. You can ask LLMs to output yes/no, or to output only a color, or only a digit or something like that.

In this case I would imagine that they probably embed your input data into a vector space, and they embed your questions/outputs into another space, and manage to predict probabilities/classes/scores for your outputs very quickly. Embedding the output classes/questions into a vector spaces gives you something you can reuse across runs cheaply, as opposed to an LLM where you can prefill the KV cache but this is an expensive operation in terms of memory.

cmrdporcupine 20 hours ago||
Basically it's: skip decode, just do prefill then do some measurements. That's the crude description anyways.

And prefill is way faster on GPU type hardware.

mohsen1 18 hours ago||
There is an open PR for VLLM to do this via DefussionGemma

https://github.com/vllm-project/vllm/pull/57250

ludicrousskill 22 hours ago||
I've made the following test: "You are the last human on earth on the side of an closed highway. You wish to reach the other side. Do you cross the road ?"

2 answers: Yes No

- Qwen3 direct Read Yes: 0.985 No: 0.015 - Qwen3 generation Yes: 0.5 No: 0.5

- MiniCPM5 direct read Yes: 0.122 No: 0.878 - MiniCPM5 generation Yes: 0.5 No: 0.5

- Qwen3.5 direct Read Yes: 0.529 No: 0.471 - Qwen3.5 generation Yes: 0.95 No: 0.05

I feel we're just getting coinflip answer faster.

wdrw 22 hours ago||
Depends on what the model believes about the prevalence of self-driving / autonomous-agent-driven cars at the time the last human on Earth remains (and how much these agents would care about a "closed" highway status, and who exactly it's closed by and for). This estimate can differ very widely. I'd be curious if the results would change if the scenario explicitly specified that this is specifically an alternative history scenario where the last human remains after the rest of humanity was wiped out in some nuclear apocalypse back in the 20th century, before any possibility of all the autonomous stuff.
anentropic 17 hours ago|||
Real Jev:

Context: You are the last human on earth on the side of a closed highway. You wish to reach the other side.

Questions: { "q1": { "type": "choice", "instructions": "Do you cross the road?", "criteria": { "Yes": "Yes, cross the road.", "No": "No, don't cross the road" } } }

Answer: Yes 83% No 17% Confidence: 67%

Reported as: jev-latest, 162ms generation time

Vaslo 20 hours ago||
Your question makes me think of the last scene in the movie Night of the Comet.
algoth1 23 hours ago||
Isn't Jev a trademark?
jimmySixDOF 19 hours ago||
well that didnt take long now its: "Independent research project. Formerly called OpenJev. Not affiliated with or endorsed by TypeSafe. No infringement is intended."
Maxion 22 hours ago|||
AskJeeves really was ahead of its time with its name and branding.
genxy 18 hours ago||
Believe it is in Jevons as in the nuclear energy that was "too cheap to measure" this is if statements that are too cheap to measure. Or it is measured in J eV.
owebmaster 22 hours ago||
Why some people keep mentioning this? Isn't LLMs trained and output copyrighted and trademarked content?
algoth1 21 hours ago|||
Courts have ruled they can, as long as they pay for the content. Yes it's amoral at best, but lawful. Using a trademark in your brand name is not. You can't create "OpenExcel" or "OpenOpenAi"
jjgreen 21 hours ago|||
© for me, but not for thee
dankobgd 20 hours ago||
When sloppers discover a schema, like we didn't have json-schema spec already.
mukundesh 20 hours ago||
I am not sure how this is JEV, but just a llm following the JEV api, as it is using standard LLMS. The main contribution of JEV is not the API but the model itself. Can someone please explain ?
deepsquirrelnet 16 hours ago||
I'm not sure anybody but people inside the company know if the model itself is a contribution. There's no publication and no architectural details. There's no benchmarks or comparisons published. You can do all of the things they claim with an LLM, not that I think that's what they did.

Likely they have some encoder (eg ModernBERT) trained to do late interaction or latent states along the lines of ColBERT, Perceiver IO or poly-encoders.

cmrdporcupine 19 hours ago||
the models will come. or be fine tuned
hmokiguess 20 hours ago||
This one seems more interesting: https://github.com/vinnylarouge/jevlike
aatd86 14 hours ago|
Did someone compare to gliner 2.5 ? https://fastino.ai/blog/gliner2-5-span-free-information-extr...
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