Top
Best
New

Posted by LiamPowell 5 days ago

Bend 2 and the Vibe-Coding Trap(blog.liampwll.com)
327 points | 235 commentspage 3
defgeneric 4 days ago|
> Feel free to replace “the author” below with “a hypothetical author who could have created the same thing”.

This is honestly sleazy, just admit you were basically way off.

GodelNumbering 5 days ago||
The code itself is the most compact representation of the rules you want applied.
Smaug123 5 days ago|
This is probably not necessarily true. “f: list[1 A] -> list[A] pure, worst-case time n log n, such that for all x and 0 <= i <= j < len(x), f(x)[i] <= f(x)[j]” is probably good enough for nearly everyone unless the program synthesiser is actively adversarial; probably 99.999% of the list-sorting in the world is done via standard library functions anyway, which suggests that people don’t much care exactly how it happens.
GodelNumbering 5 days ago|||
Good point. I would treat this as 'fully specified vs partially specified'. For a fully specified system, my mental model still maintains that the code is the most compact ruleset.

I agree that "don't care" is often the practical choice which corresponds to partially specified. In your sort example, both heap sort and merge sort satisfy the requirement. But they are not always interchangeable because each has a specific properties that you might care about (constant memory vs nLog(n) memory, easily parallelizable vs hard to parallelize and so on).

someplaceguy 5 days ago|||
> “f: list[1 A] -> list[A] pure, worst-case time n log n, such that for all x and 0 <= i <= j < len(x), f(x)[i] <= f(x)[j]” is probably good enough for nearly everyone

Not good enough: `f(x) = []` or `f(x) = (if len(x) == 0 then [] else [x[0], x[0]]` are implementations that fulfill your specification and yet they don't always sort the input list correctly...

aviraldg 5 days ago||
Very off-topic, but the 'humans write “laws”' phrasing made me think of using LLMs to unit test real laws. Have them come up with test cases to see if the phrasing is as intended or has loopholes. Wonder if anyone's tried doing something like this (probably not, I imagine this is too much tech for government)
slfnflctd 5 days ago|
I guarantee you armies of lawyers have been doing exactly what you describe for years now with existing laws, and it's only increasing.

For new legislation, you may have a point in certain situations, but even the most clueless Congress critter has people working for them who get this stuff. Whether they choose to consult them or not is, of course, another matter entirely.

davidw 5 days ago||
As a resident of Bend, Oregon, checking the homepage sets off some kind of "oh look, Bend!" alarm in my brain.
mromanuk 4 days ago||
> The problem is that vibe coding makes it possible to build a substantial solution before learning enough about the problem to recognise that a much better solution exists

As a software developer we should fear chasing "better" solutions, that path always lead to procrastination, "kitchen sink" and probably not what users wants. "Good enough" should suffice in most cases. Sure if you are building a super mega critical software to land a plane or something like that, is different. But every day software, shouldn't be treated like "carved in stone" and stuff that should last a 1000 years. Code can be cheap now (calling it "vibe coding" doesn't help).

You can create or modify something quite fast now. Better to focus on testing, documentation, making sure that software will do what is expected.

rafaelRiv 4 days ago|
> As a software developer we should fear chasing "better" solutions, that path always lead to procrastination

What a bad take. This is a discipline problem. You can chase both and be careful with the new solution.

udomese 4 days ago||
"If you ask a LLM for a language where it’s possible to prove that a function is formally correct by building up a proof from basic principles then it will happily do so, it will never stop to suggest to you that computers can already build complex proofs without the need for a LLM and eliminate 99% of the work. It will never tell you that what you’re building already mostly exists as work that you can build on."

I don't know what llm you use but current llms will definitely let you know about similar things out there. So this statement is a bit incorrect.

borzi 5 days ago||
The vibe coding dunning krueger damage has yet to surface, but I'm guessing it will be in the billions. I'm not even talking about the insane infrastructure investments - thousands of c suite execs are vibe coding pointless crap instead of delegating it to their team that knows what they are doing, wasting thousands on tokens if they are on enterprise API plans for zero return or spending 30$ on creating an interactive html page for stuff that should be a power point slide with a few bullet points. It's totally insane!
noodletheworld 5 days ago||
I feel like this is the same black hole as small local models.

Things people want to be awesome and true, and things that are actually awesome and true don't intersect the way people want them to.

…so if there was an easy way to do provably correct AI code, it would be nice.

…but I’d also like a frontier that runs on my raspberry pi and a cheap fully autonomous self driving car that just uses a single cell phone camera.

Unfortunately wanting those doesn't make them exist; and people telling you they do exist usually are either a) uninformed, or b) selling something.

skybrian 5 days ago|
It seems like this is largely a matter of what you’re asking for. If you wanted to do more research into the state of the field, an AI might be pretty good at answering your questions.
vintermann 5 days ago||
But it won't tell you if you don't ask. It won't tell you, "This approach is stupid, Ada SPARK exists".
Applejinx 5 days ago||
Why would any LLM 'think' in terms of trying to cite prior work?

It itself is prior work. It's asking a fish to show where the water is. The fish can't imagine that absence, and the LLM can't imagine anything not being prior work.

skybrian 5 days ago||
Nowadays AI chat often will do web searches and include links. It will do that more if you ask.
jchanimal 5 days ago||
Yes, telling it that you want parsimonious solutions that reuse existing libraries makes a big difference. Why would it even try to do that sort of stuff if you didn’t ask?
Sharlin 5 days ago|||
Because it should be smart. I mean, why would a human coder ever observe standard best practices unless the client specifically asks them to?
More comments...