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Posted by erwald 3 days ago

I think you should almost never use AI to write(erichgrunewald.substack.com)
362 points | 171 commentspage 2
queenkjuul 3 days ago|
I know I'm an outlier but i truly just can't imagine using an LLM for absolutely anything outside programming itself. I'm something of an expert in programming so i can spot the hallucinations and nonsense. I'm not an expert in lots of other things where i wouldn't be able to spot the problems. That and the writing is so grating and awful, the docs are so verbose yet vague. Reading the responses i explicitly asked it to generate is bad enough, i could never ask someone else to do it with something they could just generate themselves.
atdt 3 days ago||
This advice is too coarse. I believe LLMs have made me a better writer of technical reports. I have a keen ear for language, and I can usually tell when a sentence or a paragraph is orbiting around a point rather than landing on it firmly. Some writers insist that unclear prose is dispositive proof of unclear ideas -- a sign the writer has not thought things through. My experience is different: I often have a clear idea in mind that I cannot quite find the right idiom to express. Sometimes I can find it if I keep revising, but staring at a sentence too long can entangle you in a particular linguistic frame that can be hard to escape.

LLMs are helpful because their idiom-list is vast and they are indefatigable and infinitely patient. You can keep iterating on a sentence and it will keep giving you fresh takes. Eventually, whether through careful steering or brute-force iteration, it will come up with something that has the right resonance. Like a word on the tip of your tongue, you recognize it when you hear it.

For me, the end result of this writing-process is often a document where much of the language first came from the agent, but the voice is recognizably mine, and I feel a clear sense of authorship. It is still my work because of the microscopic attention I paid to every word. The marble is the agent's, but the chisel and mallet are in my hands.

semanticc 3 days ago||
I don't want to sound offending, but if that is your own writing style, it makes sense why AI writing resonates with you.
AnimalMuppet 3 days ago|||
> Sometimes I can find it if I keep revising, but staring at a sentence too long can entangle you in a particular linguistic frame that can be hard to escape.

This expresses quite well an experience that I have sometimes had. Your first words can trap you in a box that you know isn't right, but you can't figure out how to escape.

breezybottom 3 days ago||
You say the voice is clearly yours, but that's an illusion. I can recognize your comment as AI written.
atdt 3 days ago|||
I understand this is a confusing time, and we all feel vulnerable to being duped. But please be a bit more circumspect with these confident accusations, because they can be genuinely hurtful. You are factually wrong here: I don't use LLMs to write or revise personal content.
mh- 3 days ago|||
I thought it was an interesting comment and I suffer from the same issue when trying to get a clear idea from my head into writing. I sacrificed some Pangram credits to reply to the parent comment, fwiw.
breezybottom 3 days ago|||
[flagged]
mh- 3 days ago|||
I can see why you might think that, but Pangram says otherwise.

https://www.pangram.com/history/3d55b442-d151-4490-9c71-28d0...

breezybottom 3 days ago||
[flagged]
p0w3n3d 2 days ago||
I totally agree! I think AI could be used as a discussion partner or a proofreader. Otherwise it tends to extrapolate (unnecessarily enlarge) parts that are of low value and omit or not stress enough parts that are of most importance. It does not understand or know what's inside my brain and won't take it out from there by itself. It has problems with human thinking in terms of easiness (when trying to explain something for example) etc

-- EDIT --

The thing I am mostly scared of is that people who create decisions will start writing them with AI and world will stop making sense in 3... 2... 1...

MetroWind 1 day ago||
Unfortunately people don't usually "write", at least not in the sense this article describes.

> blog post, a research report, a memo, a thoughtful email, a novel

Normal people don't write blog posts, research reports (because normal people don't do research), or novel. They also don't write "thoughtful emails"; they just write low effort normal emails.

vikrantrathore 3 days ago||
Irony an article written by AI, wants to say do not use AI for writing. Following sentence looks like written by an AI, human do not use double dash, it seems AI instead of emdash wrote double dash;

“I think you should almost never use AI to write -- that is, to do the thing you’re doing when you type words on a page -- whether for a blog post, a research report, a memo,”

in_absentia 3 days ago||
This absolutely doesn't look like AI writing and this is a pretty weird signal to use.

I have a much better theory: as it happens, Substack automatically converts "--" to em-dash as you type. I'm guessing the author knew that and wanted to use this feature, but composed the article in another editor and then copied-and-pasted the whole thing. Because of how Substack implements the feature, the substitution doesn't actually kick in on Ctrl-V, so all these "--" remained in place.

erwald 3 days ago|||
Haha, I do actually use double dash, as I write in org-mode. I then convert that org-mode text to Markdown and copy and paste the Markdown into the Substack editor, which preserves the double dash. In case it needs to be said, the article is 100% human-written.
vikrantrathore 3 days ago||
In some of your other writing can see use of emdash probably thats also intentional, emacs might have very special key combo for it to use unicode emdash instead of ASCII “-“. I commented about double dash (“--“) because because thats what LLM does when asked not to use emdash for writing.

“Another promising approach is to conduct on-site inspections regularly—say, every six months— to make sure chips are not just installed to fool inspectors and then removed and smuggled, as has happened before. However, conducting on-site inspections at this scale would likely require additional budget for export enforcement, or for US authorities to implement a third-party export auditor program.”

erwald 3 days ago||
Yes, for that newsletter, where I write in my day job as a policy researcher, we use em dashes. For my personal writing (example: https://www.lesswrong.com/users/erich_grunewald), I use double dashes.
adonovan 3 days ago||
Double dash has long been the way to clearly indicate in plain ASCII text an em dash as distinct from a simple hyphen. So I think the author here is here emphatically reclaiming the use of the em dash while pointedly not using the Unicode character so beloved by LLMs.
dalemhurley 3 days ago||
When I was a graduate 20 years ago, the partner would sit with a print out of every word I wrote and a red pen marking every change required, as the partner knew anything that was written in his name had to be exactly what he would have said.

Same needs to go for LLMs, leverage them for productivity both make sure you are owning their output.

sklargh 3 days ago||
I don't find AI helpful for truly constructive or creative prose, it devolves to the median output very quickly and it's almost painful to hear in my inner voice when I read out an AI-ified idea. The "not this but that" formulation is especially bad or cloying attempt at pretending to refine an idea or lightly correct something to start from a position of authority, very annoying.

That said, I have a lot of situations at work where I am asked to simplify something I am an expert in or convey something for a different audience, particularly as I prepare for presentations and I do find it helpful in helping me step down my writing or work. YMMV.

I also skip words a lot and can miss that even after 2-3 editorial passes and it's very helpful at that vs. say normal spellcheck.

grogers 3 days ago||
Is editing really any less 'thinking' than writing the original copy? I don't use LLMs to generate prose but I can compare to writing code. Let's say I use an LLM to write code to some specification. After it meets the spec I go over everything with a fine-toothed comb - tweaking things to a style I like better, rewriting pieces or interfaces that I think would be better a different way, etc. Is the final work product any different than if I wrote it from scratch without absolutely any LLM use? Personally I would say no, if I do enough editing to be perfectly satisfied with it then it's the exact same output in the end.
in_absentia 3 days ago|
I think it's hard to generalize because people have different approaches to writing, but to me, there's a marked difference between iteratively polishing my own text and editing for someone else (and that includes LLM output produced by my own prompts).

In the second case, these sentences were never a "voice in your head", and you never invested any effort into shaping them, so it feels more like janitorial work / drive-by nitpicking than craftsmanship.

calebkaiser 3 days ago||
I think about this a lot. I started my teenage-to-young-adult life in the literary world as a poet who loved programming, and made a living as a ghostwriter. At some point, I fell in love with mathematics and wound up in ML in research/engineering for the last 8 years or so. So, I've thought a lot about writing and ML and their intersection.

I think one of the underappreciated things about writing "substantive" work is that the work you see at the end isn't the first attempt. And I don't mean the first draft of the piece. I mean that almost always, writers iterate on the same topic many times, either with complete published pieces or abandoned drafts or even just conversations and sessions of unproductive daydreaming. It's a cliche that your best work typically also comes out fastest, but it's not because of divine inspiration, it's because you've whittled the big idea you actually care about down so much in your mind that you instinctively know exactly how to write it.

My experience has been that for people who don't work this way or don't write a lot, LLMs can give them this incredible feeling of leaping straight from inkling to "substantive" writing. And because they haven't built up those muscles or "taste", they don't immediately recognize that it's imprecise and hard to follow.

That's not to say they're not brilliant in their own right, just that they haven't spent a lot of time on this particular thing. Sort of like a very gifted programmer who doesn't have a ton of experience yet (speaking as someone who is gifted at nothing and frequently has to do things they're inexperienced at).

So I don't think the problem is that LLMs just write bad. It's that LLMs are so wonderfully powerful that they allow you to confidently leap forward to create something that is a little beyond your experience.

And that's why I have different reactions to heavily AI generated writing. When it feels like marketing at scale, it grosses me out. But when I feel like it's just someone who is excited to write an idea and maybe doesn't have a lot of experience doing it, I'm not judgemental. My hope is that it makes them more excited about writing, and that trying to make their next piece better will lead them inevitably to start thinking about where the last piece fell short. And if there's some slop along the way, eh, I'm not compelled to read it.

stavros 3 days ago|
I disagree, but think that there's a specific way to use AI to write. I use AI to get critiques on my writing, but never want it to actually produce text for me. I experimented with this by making https://www.writelucid.cc, and I really like it, I use it for all my writing nowadays.

Getting comments on specific sentences/passages and being able to debate them has been great for my thinking, and I've learned a lot about what works and what doesn't work while writing with it.

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