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Posted by eustoria 2 days ago

Teen Social Media Bans Miss the Point(thereader.mitpress.mit.edu)
70 points | 115 commentspage 3
EPWN3D 2 days ago|
I don't see anything wrong with a social media ban for teens in concept. In execution, it'll be difficult to do effectively though.

What I would like to see is changes to the tax code to disincentivize the social media business model and the advertising industry generally. For example...

1. Tax the crap out of advertising revenue on social media platforms

2. Stratify the ads and ban the existence of paid tiers which include advertising. If you pay for something, you don't see ads, period

3. Ban the use of trackers and fingerprinting on any paid service without explicit opt-in

4. Create a tort for data leaks that travels with any company which handled the data. If anyone in the chain leaks it, you can take an action against all of them, and the penalties are individually assessed

5. Ban the collection and sale of profiling data for anyone under 18

6. Ban the ad-supported tier for anyone under 18

This heavily disincentivizes algorithms generally and makes paid tiers more appealing, which is much easier for parents to control. The problem with social media and teens is that teens can even sign up in the first place. Make them use a credit card, and you suddenly have a much higher barrier to entry. If I tried to subscribe my parents to HBO as a kid, it wouldn't have worked, and this is why. It wasn't because the government banned 14 year olds from seeing HBO.

scotty79 1 day ago||
> there should be a focus on supporting positive online engagement

I feel like this is the key for fighting all negative behaviors.

Fill the time, burn the energy, with better stuff so that nobody has any left for the bad stuff.

smcg 1 day ago|
I'm not sure that most people have a concept for what positive online engagement is.
zeroonetwothree 2 days ago||
Why not “Teen Cigarette Bans Miss the Point”?

Just because compliance isn’t 100% doesn’t mean there’s no benefit. Also these things can take time to work, but we do have evidence that bans reduce usage to an extent.

happymellon 2 days ago|
You are conflating cigarette damage with social media damage.

Social media doesn't have to be toxic, just toxic behaviour is rewarded. This is more like "sniper in park causes ban for under 18s". You are keeping the bad things but age gating it. It would be better to remove the sniper in the park.

MomsAVoxell 2 days ago||
It is the operating systems vendors who created this scenario by creating single-user walled-garden platforms which abrogate a parents rights and agency over their children’s lives.

I should be able to give my 8 year old a mobile phone for their uses, pair it with my phone, and at any time of day be able to observe their activity on that phone - just as if I were watching what they were up to at the park, or while experimenting with matches in the garden, or riding their bikes on the street for the first time.

But there is a distinct desire by the operating system vendors to serve their true masters - ad agencies - and abrogate responsibilities of the users. “Filesystem, what filesystem?”

The idea of having a parent/child relationship encoded in the functions of the operating system is not in alignment with the idea that the true operators of the platform are faceless corporations, hell bent on harvesting every bit of data from every human being using their platforms.

With one simple trick, operating systems can change this equation entirely: give parents their rights and duties and responsibilities back. Let me see what my 8-year old is doing, in a fair and open and equitable fashion, so that I can - as a parent - fulfill my responsibilities to keep my children safe.

A phone is no less dangerous than a sharp kitchen knife. I’m perfectly fine with my 8 year old learning to use a kitchen knife properly - to gain their own agency over it as a tool - as long as I am able to observe their use of it.

And before anyone tries to make the argument “parents don’t do that, oh my god, you’re violating your child’s right to privacy” - no, that is not what I mean. A child should have privacy and they should learn to have agency over that privacy - but a parent is not absolved of the issue if that child falls of a cliff because of their negligence. Let the OS provide privacy - but let it also provide a means of review by the parents - who are the ones ultimately responsible for the child in the first place.

This needs to be an OS feature. Parents and children should, through the OS, be able to establish a strong, positive relationship with each other over this issue, with agency returned to the family unit.

Otherwise, we are creating totalitarian systems of control and putting them in the hands of people we simply cannot trust. The degradation of agency within the family unit is a function of commercial desire to exploit that lack of agency.

Operating systems, instead of serving ad agency masters, can go a long, long way to provide parents and children the right tools to solve this problem. They do, however, need to stop suckling at the teat of the nameless corporations who see the family unit as a nut that has to be cracked in order to extract the juice.

dleslie 2 days ago||
Android allows parents to monitor and control what apps children use, and for how long, on their devices.

So I block chrome, and require my permission to install any app. They get thirty minutes a day on devices that lack a browser or social media apps. Not even any YouTube.

They can browse the web on PCs that are visible to the whole living room.

MomsAVoxell 2 days ago||
That’s all in the right direction. I think there are other things OS vendors can do too - screen sharing and a logged timeline history of events would also be useful for parents.

We have tools to do this already - authentication apps, and so on - but it’s my firm opinion that these need to be built in to the OS. I’m happy to hear Android allows this to an extent already ..

mohamedkoubaa 2 days ago||
Please contact me or share your contact information, I am working on something exactly like this.
MomsAVoxell 2 days ago||
Interesting - for which OS?
mohamedkoubaa 2 days ago||
All of them :)
pastaepatate 2 days ago||
[dead]
kubb 2 days ago|
“It failed now please don’t try anymore, see it can’t be done, trust the kidz.”

Someone’s nervous.

trallnag 2 days ago|
lol