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Posted by JohnBerryman 3 hours ago

OpenAI is well positioned to fast-follow Jev(arcturus-labs.com)
157 points | 110 commentspage 3
florianstandhar 3 hours ago|
maybe open source even eats Jevs lunch first

see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49800574

yogthos 3 hours ago||
Personally, I don't really care what OpenAI does here. What's going to be far more exciting is when DeepSeek, Qwen, or GLM start integrating classifiers into their open models.
reddalo 3 hours ago||
Exactly, the future is open models. Which is also the reason why those overvalued companies such as OpenAI will lead to a market crash as soon as investors realize that.
verdverm 3 hours ago||
I'm not sure it makes as much sense to use the same bigger models for the things Jev does. Part of what makes Jev appealing is the cost/speed. I can definitely see them putting out S1 spins of their smaller models.
yogthos 1 hour ago||
That's not what I meant. I'm thinking more of AI systems that combine multiple modules the same way the brain has different regions. LLMs are just part of the bigger picture here. They're good at tackling a certain types of problems, but other approaches are better for different kinds of problems. Having a system that combines a generative model and a classifier for example would make it a lot more efficient and accurate because it has a bigger toolbox instead of using one algorithm for every problem whether it fits or not.
verdverm 1 hour ago||
they write code and use tools, most of that does not need to be part of the "system" that is trained up
yogthos 7 minutes ago||
There are plenty of other use cases aside from agentic coding. However, even here a classifier has a lot of obvious benefits. There are plenty of scenarios where a model has to make a choice, and programming/system tool use happen to be deterministic sets of choices that can be evaluated.
verdverm 2 minutes ago||
> programming/system tool use happen to be deterministic sets of choices

I'm not following. There are way more tools in the world, and likely available on every machine, than can fit in any model context. One can create a small list, but that will be very org dependent. Programming is very open ended, I struggle to see the 'deterministic set of choices' here.

I'm looking at Jev/Kev like models for some control over tool calling and similar, but I also think that fine-tuning out behaviors (like qwen 3.8 wanting to use rkt all the time) may be better in the long run. Instead of having to check/change every tool call, we can refine the main LLM to have high enough likelihood of using the tools we actually have, that we won't need to check every call.

Jev is definitely useful, but also being held like a hammer in search of a nail right now, approaching OpenClaw like fanfare and hype levels. No one talks much about OpenClaw these days, I would not be surprised if Jev has a similar trajectory.

linuxftw 3 hours ago||
I'm looking forward to next week when we never have to hear about Jev again.
superdisk 3 hours ago||
Why is everybody so obsessed with it? There are 2 Jev posts on the front page even now, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
epihelix 2 hours ago|||
Beats me also - this feels unreliable, extremely niche, and over-hyped. I don't trust LLMs even when they explain their reasoning; the idea of trusting a black-box classifier like this seems insane.
danielmarkbruce 2 hours ago|||
For certain tasks, it seems much, much more efficient. That's not nothing. People have been using LLMs for various classification tasks.
jackb4040 2 hours ago|||
In my company, and I think in most companies that are using AI at all, one of the first ways it got integrated is as a classifier, to tag orders based on feeding all their data into a prompt and asking for a structured output.

I think demand for tools that are more tailored for this type of integration is high. I don't really understand why Jev is supposed to get my company's decisions right more than an LLM, but regardless of the tech I think people are just excited about the possibility of iterating faster, more explainability, higher-level tools that are specifically created to help hone classifiers etc.

linuxftw 2 hours ago|||
Great, we don't need 15 thousands posts per hour across social media channels. We had classification NN before LLMs as well.
danielmarkbruce 2 hours ago||
Yeah but they weren't that great, you couldn't ask for arbitrary classifications after the model was trained. You are underestimating what they've done here, even if it does seem a little overhyped.
verdverm 3 hours ago||
this one feels closer to the claw cycle
enraged_camel 3 hours ago||
I'm confused. Why OpenAI and not Anthropic? I don't see anything here that is specific to OpenAI.
docheinestages 3 hours ago|
It's not just OpenAI. It can be any frontier-level lab that has more funding than Jev.
gcr 2 hours ago||
gosh, for wanting TypeSafe to survive, this fellow just handed OpenAI detailed instructions and ideas for defeating them...
JohnBerryman 1 hour ago|
chaotic neutral
jcims 3 hours ago||
I just had Claude and Jev combine forces last night. I've built a few personal browser extensions in the past and thought it would be fun to copy an experiment I saw on twitter where Jev classifies comments/posts etc as slop or not.

Fed Claude an api key from typesafe and a link to documentation, and within about 10 minutes I had a view of HN that was populated with a little ranking as to sloppiness of each comment.

When your mind has been wired a bit to LLM latency, it feels extremely fast, and for such a subjective rating I think it did a good job.

Feels like it sits in a space between traditional ML classification and the frontier models. I can't think of a 'real' production use case for it in my sphere of influence, but certainly some will. And of course there will be five Jev competitors by the end of the year.

willmadden 1 hour ago||
That article is a bit myopic. People and companies don't want to feed all of their ideas, projects, and intellectual property to a morally unscrupulous oligopoly. We learned that lesson the hard way with the last batch of tech monopolies, and the shift towards majority open weight models proves the trend.

Open weight classifiers and open weight LLMs will be burned onto silicon cards in a few years after the models begin to stabilize. They'll be in PCs and laptops. That's going to capture a HUGE chunk of the market.

If you need more horsepower, you'll rent the same silicon safely from AI services cloud providers without handing your data over to Anthropic and OpenAI.

BeetleB 2 hours ago||
Asking again (didn't get an answer in prior discussion):

As there have been a lot of Jev related submissions, can someone point me to a simple guide on how I can use it? For example, say I have a script/workflow where I use OpenRouter for LLM calls, and at some point I want to do a simple classification. Can I still use OpenRouter with some Jev model...?

LoganDark 3 hours ago||
> Back when I was at GitHub working on Copilot I had the opportunity to work with a very new and very raw internal API for GPT-4. Out of the gate, we knew something was way off because, after an initially very coherent response, the model would have trouble wrapping up. It would end every response with something like "Let me know if you have any other questions. Have a nice day. Have a great week. Have a good time. Have a wonderful life. Have a special day. ..." and it would keep on like this until it hit the response token limit.

I love this!!

JohnBerryman 1 hour ago|
I'm glad someone noticed :P - It was hilarious once we figured out what was going on. We had literally removed it's ability to shut up.
verdverm 3 hours ago|
With all the excitement around Jev, I suspect we'll see hundreds of options, it doesn't sound like Jev is that hard to replicate, given all the 3rd parties who are getting pretty damn close, or even better, results within a week.

vLLM has a PR very close to merging: https://github.com/vllm-project/vllm/pull/57250

Kev is an open Jev: https://github.com/jaredpalmer/kev

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