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Posted by mooreds 12 hours ago

I don't want the details(michaelheap.com)
344 points | 194 commentspage 6
Wowfunhappy 10 hours ago|
> [The Manager] continued:

>> I know that if we get into the details, the reasons will be perfectly reasonable. You'll explain what happened, I'll understand why everyone made the decisions they made, and I'll empathise with you.

>> Then it'll happen again.

>> So I don't want the details. I want to know what we're changing.

Even if the manager's approach was correct, this is just a hurtful way to frame it to your team. It's great that the author could reverse-engineer what the manager was doing, but it shouldn't come to that.

Why couldn't the manager say something like:

> You are all great engineers, so I already know that everyone made the best decision available with the information they had at the time. What are we going to do differently moving forward?

I'm still not sure I agree with the strategy, because I don't see how you can understand what happens next without understanding what went wrong. But I can see how the framing might help steer the discussion.

hnrprtlpdb 12 hours ago||
Learned this doing incident reviews. If the exec asks for details it usually means they don't believe you yet, so "skip to what changes" is actually the good outcome.
f33d5173 10 hours ago||
Idiotic article. Nobody collects "why"s so they can not change anything. Not changing anything is never the failure mode. The failure mode is changing the wrong thing. If you are a leader, and something egregious goes wrong, it is your job to ensure that your people don't just put some bandaid fix on it that will keep causing issues indefinitely. Understanding the complete "why" is a precondition for that. Not bothering to hear a complete explanation because you trust your people to do the right thing is fine, but then why were you on that call in the first place? Let them do their job.
turc1656 10 hours ago||
We write up timelines. We reconstruct decisions. We explain dependencies. At the end of it, we hand over a document that contains the specific combination of events that led to the incident. Everyone nods their head, says "that makes sense", and we all move on with our day.

...huh? I've been in corporate America for 19 years now and I've never once had this happen. I've never seen anyone just look for the cause and not ask what can be done to prevent it in the future. Everyone KNOWS that question is coming next.

markus_zhang 8 hours ago||
The SVP needs something to report back to his manager and that’s it.
qarl 12 hours ago||
> ...I'll empathise with you. Then it'll happen again.

I'm not so sure this means "I trust you."

bsoqk 10 hours ago||
This is just a LinkedIn post.
piterrro 6 hours ago||
Post-mortem, 5-why, retrospection - all this to understand what and how it happened so the org may introduce change so that it doesnt happen again. Then another edge case happens and the cycle repeats. Humans do this cycle all the time - big orgs invented the above structure for this process to be visible and collaborative and so that the rest of the org can learn too. Then you put execs on top, they will come, ask some questions so they can sleep better at night. Corporate playbook, some people hate it, the rest understands it… and plays the game.
oliwarner 9 hours ago||
How you can have an informed conversation about change without hearing the problem out?

If you trust someone that much, why are you even in the loop? Why are you badgering them at all? This is just bad management pretending to offer underlings autonomy. As soon as it fails, everyone loses their job.

numpad0 11 hours ago|
Is this Five Whys from First Principles?
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