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Posted by platevoltage 18 hours ago

Ask HN: I just talked to an AI-obsessed client, and I need a shower afterwards

Just to preface, this isn't the typical "Am I being replaced by vibe coding" post.

I just had a talk with one of my first ongoing clients, who sort of helped me kickstart my freelancing "career". He is one of those people who has a broad understanding of the tech out there, and what its capabilities are, but is not a programmer. He wanted to show me, and get my opinion on a restaurant management app that he's been using Lovable to develop. Admittedly, a lot of it is very impressive, and he has obviously become very good at using these tools. Part of that scares me, but I've largely accepted the reality that my skillset has to expand beyond being a React code monkey (wish is not what I am, but you get the point). I've always been a curious generalist, so picking up new stuff comes easily, and I'll manage.

Anyways, here's the part that feels really gross. He's working on a feature that does some automated marketing using Higgsfield, so automated slop posting. Also a feature that consumes reviews from vendors, and he intends to use agents to post reviews as well.

I'm 43, I managed to convince my parents to get AOL when I was 12. I made a Geocities site at 14. I've been obsessed with computers and the internet for my entire life. I'm also an artist who had a somewhat successful run as a touring musician, much to the detriment of my career growth (not much money in Punk).

I feel the hobbies that I've been nurturing for my entire life are being destroyed by people who have finally found an entry point that requires the smallest amount of effort. We are literally watching the dead internet happen in real time, social media turning into a AI slop gallery, AI music topping the charts, and I just had a one-on-one conversation with someone that just doesn't care, because they get to feel creative for possibly the first time ever.

How are you all dealing with this?

23 points | 27 comments
FlowingRiver 18 hours ago|
I am dealing with it by walking away from the internet and connected technology as much as possible.

Unfortunately, generally if people can do something, they will. And with AI systems they have been given one of the largest short cuts possible, thus they take it relentlessly. There is no concern for quality so long as it is good enough to benefit them.

They will try to rationalize it but it typically ends up in moral corruption of "If I don't, they will."

It saddens me because I saw the vision of what computers and connected technology could be in the 90's and 2000's, only to see it turn bitter.

I remember reading an essay by Richard Stallman calling all this kind of stuff out in the late 1980's and I kind of hate that he got it so right. In assuming that many will take the power play and the convenience means that this is the path we take.

The more you can walk away form this stuff the better even if you don't want to.

markus_zhang 13 hours ago|
I agree with this sentiment. I’m going back to books, notebooks and a unconnected computer if I genuinely want to learn some programming —- to bang my head against the walls so many times until I get it —- like what people did before the Internet era.
Tony_Delco 10 hours ago||
The cost of producing code has dropped to almost zero, but the cost of knowing whether that code is actually useful hasn't.

I think the same is true for images, videos, and music. The cost of producing content is approaching zero, but taste, originality, judgment, and intent still matter.

In a world where anyone can create almost anything, having good taste could become increasingly important.

ezulabs 3 hours ago||
(Tree was full of apples before, easy to grab, and no one even knew it. Later we started to jump, climb and find new ways that was progressive and very exciting. All a sudden they figure out the tree that was already running out of apples, so what. Find a new one that requires tools/skills not much people has and still valuable, it is much harder to say but you are already one of the people who can and should. Your 12 year old of your self used curiosity, passion, what ever the motive is still there, just kick start it again, find your new AOL, do your first new Geocities level project that matches today's tech.That means imo it is time for you to train your first llm, dig into how inference works. Or write your first arduboy game for fun. The new challenging stuff that they can not touch any time soon hopefully that will trigger back your curiosity and passion. Best of luck! My 2 cents.)
taurath 14 hours ago||
This can’t go on, so it won’t. The 20s will be looked back at as a really awful time except for the ultra rich. Wait and watch and give actual people a chance, humans are better than this, but we’ve gotta develop antibodies to this new strain of leech.

Your client sounds like a prick of a person - I hope you find better clients!

platevoltage 3 hours ago|
He's actually a very nice person who has been great to me. He just doesn't get it.
skyberrys 6 hours ago||
What is the response here to finding out the plans of reply with agents and post as agents? If we do nothing the flood of AI posts will overwhelm the internet. But doing something seems impossible too.
bruce511 12 hours ago||
Every industry goes through a cycle of birth, explosion of creativity, enormous profitability, followed by consolidation and a small corporate class, and a large hobby class.

A time ago, sewing and tailoring was a valuable skill. Cheap clothes made it unnecessary. Today sewing is a hobby and most people who sew do so at a lower quality than a machine. You can say the same about pottery and ceramics.

There was a time when there were hundreds of car companies. Folks who wanted to could build a car, or plane, from scratch. That's not possible anymore.

Today lots of people cook at home at a level far superior to (at least) fast food restaurants. But of course fast food still exists.

I have been lucky to spend my career at the birth of the industry. It is now moving into the next stage, the commoditization of the skill set. I've seen the industry change before though, this is just the next cycle of that.

Lots of people will make a lot of software for themselves. But they won't sell it. Lots of other people will buy software because programming (ai or not) won't interest them. Programming isn't the skill here. Everything else in the business is.

harrisonsmith32 3 hours ago||
I agree. A lower barrier entry at a significant cost to society.

I wish there was a way to metric creativity, strategy and effort.

mattbrewsbytes 5 hours ago||
I have an ipad and it came with Garage Band to create music. I toyed around with that a little. I think thats like with AI - people will play around with it, figure some things out but do they have the interest and time to take on all the work involved with something like a restaurant management app? I certainly am not interested enough to become a music producer, nor do I have enough taste to know if something is good. There's an entire process to getting music produced that I'm ignorant of. People can generate toy apps or websites with AI all they want ... back in the dot com days people could create HTML sites from MS Word (it was disgusting output). They have no interest in maintaining, patching, troubleshooting, and scaling any of these toy apps. Sure they could get AI to do that too - can they check that AI is doing it correctly? what about when it fails?

I think the thing that humans are going to find is AI has no taste. Its the statistical median/average of solutions. AI slop is going to become prevalent and people are probably not going to like it after the hype fades. Part of the human experience is connecting with other humans, even if its following a band, or artist, etc. Things created by AI don't have that human experience element.

ThePhysicist 15 hours ago||
Some skills are impressive, hard to learn and take years or decades to master but are essentially worthless in a monetary sense. Just yesterday I witnessed a musician masterfully playing a beautiful piece on the accordion. Only he wasn't playing in a great music hall, he was in a busy subway station hoping to collect a few coins from passersby. I assume he mostly did it for the love of the game, while he could have made more money delivering food or sorting boxes at Amazon.

That got me thinking that programming might be like that in the near future, it's still an impressive skill for a human to learn and master and it takes tremendous effort and the craft itself is beautiful, but economically it will just not matter anymore. And in the same way as the music industry today is bigger than it ever was and there's tremendous money in it but 95-99 % of highly talented musicians will never earn a decent wage with it, the software industry will be bigger than it ever was but the money will be highly concentrated in the hands of a few players. Maybe we will still have some rockstar programmers than can masterfully command legions of agents or that win the love of the crowd for their unique work, but most of us will be enjoying this craft as a creative hobby and will do other things for a living.

Then again, coming back to the music parable, for a long time "amateurs" can make music with software tools without having any talent or even knowing musical notation or anything about tempo. Does that make them musicians? So take solace in the fact that these people aren't programmers and never will be, they're just pushing buttons on a synth board watching the "music" that comes out. Mastering a skill, regardless of what it is, will still matter to people, it will just not be worthwhile economically for most of us. There are so many things in that category, running for example isn't worthwhile for most of us in an economic sense as you have to be at the top 0.1 % of runners to make a living with it, still it has tremendous benefits and brings enjoyment.

platevoltage 3 hours ago|
> Then again, coming back to the music parable, for a long time "amateurs" can make music with software tools without having any talent or even knowing musical notation or anything about tempo. Does that make them musicians?

I think it does. This is where everyone starts. Even with software tools, the music an amateur can make with them will be awful, at least for the time being. There will be no mistaking that it was made by an amateur at first listen. All software tools, and cheap hardware interfaces like Scarlet enabled was for people with talent to make music without access to a studio and 2 inch tape. Once the dopamine hits, you WANT to start learning about tempo, chords, theory etc. I've never heard of a "vibe coder" who wants to take the next step in learning what the code that they're generating means.

markus_zhang 13 hours ago|
It is good for them TBH. I don’t think there is anyway to stop that, and they do genuinely feel good so it’s kinda fine for me.

I have learned to cope with AI tools at work, but use it scarcely, and went back to books and hand-coding if I really want to learn something because that’s the only way that makes the knowledge stays in my brain a bit longer.

I did lose some interests in programming in general, but AI is just a part of the reason —- most of it is because I don’t have good mental health —- and AI is part of the reason triggering anxiety.

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