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Posted by jmvldz 1 day ago

Plan mode is dead(www.aymannadeem.com)
549 points | 474 commentspage 5
whywhywhywhy 8 hours ago|
In Claude Code it started to feel like it just asks 2 questions and sometimes there isnt really needed 2 questions so the options there often felt like choosing to downgrade or do something actually dumb because it was forced to suggest 2 things.
DrSiemer 15 hours ago||
My own tool has a Project Starter, that takes users from idea to todo list in a number of very specific phases. I've been using it for small to medium sized projects for a year now and it still works great for me.

Just don't expect to end up with a finished project; it's more like a first draft. Once it's there, it's much easier to determine what it is you actually want, since you can directly experience what works and what should be changed.

One important caveat is that I do not work with agents; each step goes through a fairly rigid manual review phase.

valzam 19 hours ago||
I have been using this super simple skill[0] to make Claude ask exhaustive questions about the implementation of larger features. It has been absolutely amazing and felt like a step change in the output quality.

For complex features there can be 10 or more questions but I have a very strong sense of understanding the changes about to be made and Claude is very good at following all the decisions exactly. It's like working with an engineer who is both excellent at soliciting requirements and fast at implementation.

[0]https://github.com/mattpocock/skills/blob/main/docs/producti...

valzam 11 hours ago||
I realised I linked super cringe docs instead of the actual skill:

https://github.com/mattpocock/skills/blob/main/skills/produc...

SalariedSlave 16 hours ago||
The claudism in such docs is so tiring. So many words, yet reading them feels like trying to fill a sieve with water.

That writing style is borderline incomprehensible.

samradelie 17 hours ago||
I will try to update this repositorysoon, but I had to stop because the ahem compatibility failure of Claude Code env features; observer; agent workflow message passing LACKING on installed marketplace plugins

I am still actively working on thesis : a self-directed plan mode to generate artifacts that can go through multiple evaluations of interactive interrogation is valuable

https://github.com/samelie/claude-plugin-pnpm/blob/main/skil...

astrostl 8 hours ago||
YES, and I also find that plan mode incentivizes bad practices and results in steadily reduced thought. On bad practices, I refer to zero/one-shot big bangs over iterative features/bugfixes. On reduced thought, assuming the plan was sufficiently comprehensive because it seemed to ask reasonable questions.

It can still be used in ways that I personally consider correct, but I think the parts I personally consider incorrect are so inherently alluring that I find plan mode to be an overall net negative for software development. I celebrate its apparently impending default removal (at least Claude Code and OpenCode are openly stating that they think it's time for it to go).

Jimmc414 11 hours ago||
I think with Claude Code plan mode has value even if Fable “gets it” off the bat. It’s a chance to explicitly disambiguate intent through AskUserQuestion tool as well as utilizing the option to clear content when plan is approved. The automatic disambiguation step is RLHF’d out of the model even when it’s needed.
jolaflow 17 hours ago||
> We still haven’t solved how to help people stay oriented as hundreds of increasingly capable agents change a system at once…

Building an issue tracker that addresses this. It can replay the workflow after the fact like a movie, and pin down the parts that require human input via tagging and inline diffs in the tickets. It is git-native, lives in your repo alongside the code doesn’t require any external service.

https://ljtn.github.io/epiq/

SillyUsername 1 day ago||
I'm going through the same problem right now

Qwen 3.8 27b is the supervisor

Qwen 3.5 4b are the 6-15 minions it controls

Gemma 4 e4b is the validator for the supervisor.

A plan means it preps all work for the agents up front, tests that evals work, makes sure the dev environment is right for each agent, then finds and fixes each before the distributed tasks even begin.

What I thought would take minutes took hours as a supervisor or one agent did the prep / pre flight work.

My solution so far has been to drop all but basic setup and force the supervisor to ask before every op - if this is not the design choices, can this be run in parallel? If so, hand it off NOW.

I'm still iterating this workflow, but less setup for all the minions plus handing them work that may be incomplete/ broken is caught and fixed by the minion and its own qa gates.

This can mean a number of minions end up replicating the same fixes, but in general the time cost of that is small Vs the supervisor working in parallel instead of too sequentially.

int_19h 15 hours ago||
I'm genuinely curious as to what you're working on that you find 4B models good enough. I wouldn't even let a 27B model code, never mind supervising smaller models.
SillyUsername 13 hours ago||
At the moment I'm still doing shakedowns, so Typescript games compilation with a menu that has 4 games and retro artwork.

This seems to be a good example because things like the menu, high score boards etc are common, but the games are distinct. Then there's the artwork which requires decisions on look, and for coordinating.

The Qwen 4B model is multimodal so part of the AC is to view the output - I've a robust anti AI-look QA chain for that I've been using elsewhere, e.g. no floating parts, consistency, obvious missing fingers etc etc.

The longer term plan is to do some llama.cpp refactors specifically for some target hardware I have and implementing slightly different novel architectures I'd like to try (one I did already targeted CPU inference, which I did using 3 agents with specific roles; main planner, QA for planner, and benchmarking/environment handling)

The implementation was 85% of the speed of the original maxed out on my hardware but performance scaled with CPU core count whereas the original implementation plateaued. Unfortunately the break even mark seemed to be around 30 - non HT - threads.

I suppose I should look at that one again, since the increase in cores did not linearly drop off performance e.g. due to memory contention.

adastra22 1 day ago|||
Tell the planner to not do all that. Just plan out the high level. No code. No implementation details.
tcdent 1 day ago||
Yeah, it's way better when you do design documentation, or even ticketing, to instruct it not to include any implementation specifics. You're not doing the deep dive on the zero shot that writes the ticket or the document and so it is much less informed than the agent doing the work will be.
mappu 23 hours ago|||
If you can run the smarter 3.8 27B model, why not use it for everything?
UncleOxidant 1 day ago|||
How do you set all of that up with supervisor and minions? What harness?
MuffinFlavored 1 day ago||

    > Qwen 3.8 27b is the supervisor
    > 
    > Qwen 3.5 4b are the 6-15 minions it controls
    > 
    > Gemma 4 e4b is the validator for the supervisor.

I just use Opus 5.5 and don't think about it?
SillyUsername 1 day ago|||
These are self hosted for learning experience, I could have built an agent swarm in the cloud, but I'd never have learnt the fundamentals.

- Cold starts impact, context length issues, task lifecycle management

- Inefficiencies in delegation, necessitating workflow patterns for small projects (big AIs hide this problem until you scale and they hit the same issues).

- Limits of the AI would be harder to find or notice (e.g. where time - and cost - is being spent needlessly).

UncleOxidant 1 day ago|||
Or just use a more capable local model like Qwen3.8-Flash-Next?
solarkraft 1 day ago||
Or Kimi K3? /s

Some people are resource constrained.

alightsoul 20 hours ago||
I am not so sure honestly. You can still wreck a codebase if you don't plan because the ai can make assumptions you don't want, or as other people say it's all a matter of taste
Bockit 22 hours ago|
I don’t agree. I think the way maybe the author used planning to maintain an understanding of the changes is largely not necessary, but there are other good use cases.

For example, it’s a great hook in the process for agentic review.

Get a second agent to look at what will be implemented and check it for inconsistencies, check it against whatever decisions were made or provided previously in the chat, or against whatever technical rules you’ve written out for your project, before going ahead. It surfaces a large number of opportunities for refinement, and generally pushes the output closer to the direction you’re looking for.

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