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Posted by ezst 13 hours ago

Breaking Up with Google Play: Why Conversations Is Now Free(gultsch.de)
624 points | 245 commentspage 4
jonathanstrange 10 hours ago|
Sorry this is a bit of a long rant. To many people here this will be a very old hut but I've only recently realized that Apple and Google are basically extortion rackets and have made the online world way worse and enshittified than it should be. Why? They deliberately make it as hard as possible to sell true cross-platform apps. "Buy one license, install our software on all of your devices." That should sound reasonable, yet it's impossible as a business model. If you put an app on the Apple Store or on Google Play, you cannot have it unlocked by a license code. So you have to sell it on their platform. That means that if you want to sell one license for all platforms, you'd have to force your users to buy the license in one of those stores, then generate desktop license from that store purchase. That's not just nonsense, it still wouldn't work because the user can still not switch from iOS to Android and vice versa.

Okay, so sell mobile platforms separately but make desktop platforms with one license. That would still be nice and comparatively hassle-free for your customers. Not so fast, though! Desktop app stores also prohibit free apps with unlock mechanism. So you have to put unlockable versions on your website. However, app stores explicitly prohibit even just mentioning that the user doesn't have to buy an app if they have already bought it elsewhere. They strictly prohibit pointing the user elsewhere to check whether they could use it for free. Consequently, unless your users are extremely well educated about those platform quirks, many of them will erroneously buy your app twice.

But wait! There is an exception in Apple Store and Google Play Store. You're strictly prohibited from putting an app on there that needs to be unlocked by a license key, but you are allowed to ask the user to create an account or log into an existing account with a user name and email address. As long as users can also purchase the app on the respective store, that's allowed. So you can tie the app to an account and unlock it if the user already bought it for another platform. For some reason, unlocking an app with a code is strictly prohibited but unlocking it by providing your email and a password and then contacting a server is totally fine. That's why so many apps have those shitty login requirements. I wasn't really aware of that.

In a nutshell, apart from "freemium models" there are two major ways to sell cross-platform software that really is cross-platform. First, make the user pay individually for each platform, make them buy your app again and again with all the hassle that brings. Second, force them to login with an email and a user name with some direct contact to some centralized hub server.

IMHO, all of these options are strictly worse than just allowing your users to buy the app anywhere they like and unlock it for all other platforms.

metalman 9 hours ago||
To the author. Go buy yourself some socks.Maybe a wallet, and go to the resturaunt that never fails you, or more generaly put in a concerted shameless effort to catch up, relax, fit the worst little personal bugs and recuring inconvieniences, essentialy put the same attention that you put into maintaining your product, into your self, remember to say fuck you google as you put the new " toothbrush * " you got by the sink, that you have reminded yourself but failed to get for the last six months, because thats what we give up, when we are blamming ourselves for the rejections we get from nameless faceless functionaries, that doom loop of 'engagement' is the point behind the delays and mindless activity, and reversing it is almost magical.

* 'toothbrush', anything that is a constant tiny irritant going away can be absurdly triumphant

cindyllm 8 hours ago|
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GnosiWorks 54 minutes ago||
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promptsphereeee 12 hours ago||
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perennialreport 7 hours ago||
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devomnitools 10 hours ago||
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szundi 12 hours ago||
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Rabaa 12 hours ago||
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iugtmkbdfil834 12 hours ago||
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Rabaa 12 hours ago|
Quer és o meu número bro?
wccrawford 12 hours ago|
15% is a lot. I'm not trying to say it isn't.

And they're annoying and often screw up the review process.

Google is always going to make money off any work they do. That's just business. They're not going to put more money towards better reviews without taking more money. And without the reviews, even as crappy as they are, a lot of really crappy software would be on the store. And a lot more would be actively malicious

And you were making like 7x as much as they were taking. Without them, you would even get noticed and you'd have made nothing.

We know this because almost nobody installs FDroid, and the other stores like Samsung make basically nothing for developers, even though they're preinstalled on so many devices.

mitxela 10 hours ago||
The app store is full of crappy and malicious software though. Why pay them for something they aren't doing anyway?
moomoo11 7 hours ago||
so how much do you think they should take?

what is "fair" in your opinion?

mitxela 6 hours ago||
For the services they currently provide, zero. They provide negative value. If they shut down the play store that will be good.
Netcob 12 hours ago|||
It's not just business - it's basically a monopoly. Enough to extract rent while providing a minimal service.

Imagine if all streets were owned by two large companies who charged you enough to use them that you'd be paying as much in fees as you are in paying for gas. People would still use cars. The streets could be in horrible condition, the two companies would be making an insane amount of profit, but there would still be people out there saying that if it wasn't for those companies we wouldn't be getting anywhere and it's just business.

kriops 11 hours ago||
It's literally not. And your analogy is bad, because it describes inelastic demand, and not the platform effect.
Topfi 11 hours ago|||
How is the Play Store not a monopoly? It has been found such by multiple judges in multiple jurisdictions for a reason.
WarmWash 8 hours ago||
Ironically, the Apple App store was found to not be a monopoly. Or the playstation store, or xbox store for that matter.

In fact the legal system punishes you for having an open platform. The very reason the author can leave the play store is the same reason why the play store is a "monopoly". So sure, maybe the play store is a monopoly with some rigid definitions that lack nuance, but lets not throw away logic here.

Topfi 5 hours ago|||
If Apple/Google v Epic is what's on your mind, it was not having an open platform that resulted in the judgement. More what they did beyond just operating the platform. Being a monopoly in the US is legal, abusing market position less so. Maybe that lacks nuance and is a bit rigid, but it's the law in the States and what courts are bound by.

Something like the DMA and gatekeepers exist in part exactly because of the status quo and entities like Apple. I personally see the gatekeeper approach as a solid base, but know that it can be quite unpopular within the industry.

Netcob 7 hours ago|||
To me that's semantics.

If I had an app, I'd have to pay Apple whatever they want to charge in order to get access to one part of all mobile phone users and Google whatever they want to charge in order to get access to the other.

Maybe calling that a monopoly wouldn't be good enough in an economics paper, but I don't see much of a practical difference. I get to accept the price or not do business.

And to set off some more bots: We desperately need regulation in this space.

applfanboysbgon 12 hours ago|||
> And you were making like 7x as much as they were taking. Without them, you would even get noticed and you'd have made nothing.

Jesus Christ you can always count on HN for the most sycophantic, bootlicking comments sucking up to big tech imaginable.

xandrius 12 hours ago||
It's an absolutely fair argument and it just doesn't show great intelligence to go straight to namecalling rather than bringing up counter arguments.

I do believe that while Google and Apple are evil gatekeepers they also made it easier for non-tech people to install their own app without always calling their kids or neighbours. That's already a big win.

gdulli 10 hours ago|||
It is not a win that we've given up our freedom and privacy to Google, Apple, Steam, etc. because people refused to learn how to click setup.exe.
Brian_K_White 2 hours ago||||
There is nothing about finding and installing apps that required Google/Apple app stores to make it easier and/or safer.

The way they are doing it is merely the way they are doing it, not the only way it could be done.

So no it was not a win at all and does not justify the method or the various forms of cost & overhead. Not just money but freedom, privacy, agency, discrimination, censoship, algorithm thumb on scale, support, etc.

vachina 10 hours ago||
There’s Huawei App Gallery but it is to the West a product of a commie so it needed to be suppressed and snuffed.
daneel_w 1 hour ago||
No, it's because Huawei assists the CCP in conducting systemic espionage on the West.