Top
Best
New

Posted by sensanaty 3 hours ago

Improper redaction reveals Google Data Center water and electricity usage(www.1011now.com)
131 points | 165 commentspage 2
motionlessveloc 2 hours ago||
I don't really understand the hand-wringing about data centers and water. Unlike fossil fuels, when you "use" water, it doesn't go away, it goes back out into the environment. And since DCs use it for cooling, not some industrial process, it doesn't even contaminate the water in any meaningful way.

The one exception is if they're using fossil water pumped from aquifers, which doesn't renew (back into the aquifer that is), but nobody seems to bother to make the distinction.

ordersofmag 1 hour ago||
True if you're using a closed-loop system. But if you're using evaporative cooling (which is the main cause for concern) then the place where the water 'comes back into the environment' may be quite far away (at least in a useful sense).
tzs 30 minutes ago|||
20-25% of the water consumed for evaporative cooling becomes contaminated waste water. It is used to clean out the residue left behind by the 75-80% of the consumed water that is evaporated.

The contaminants consist of dissolved solids and minerals that were in the incoming water, plus additives such as anti-scalers, corrosion inhibiters, and antibacterials.

Dylan16807 4 minutes ago||
How much additive gets in there? Is it more or less contaminated than normal sewage? A reasonable amount of treatment is part of the water bill.

The excess minerals don't worry me much.

blensor 2 hours ago|||
I think the bigger issue with water usage ( if it's actually an issue ) is when the system is not able to handle the additional demand ( drying up wells, etc. ) Especially during the summer where water supply is already strained in some areas.

Yes water goes eventually back into circulation but that does not help in the place where the system is already at it's limit

debatem1 2 hours ago|||
I would love to see a real breakdown of aquifer water usage.
bix6 2 hours ago|||
IMO the water thing is a distraction. It gets people quibbling over water instead of asking bigger questions about the data center.
Ancapistani 1 hour ago|||
Mostly, but not entirely. It is a huge issue in the Southwest, and it seems like a lot of DCs are being proposed and/or built in areas where water is far from abundant.
0xbadcafebee 2 hours ago|||
Fresh water supply has been on a downward trend for years. We are already looking at a future without enough fresh water, before the new datacenters come into play. The datacenters are being installed in some of the driest areas of the country that were already water stressed. In some cases they can also contaminate local water systems.
bix6 1 hour ago||
I’m not disagreeing with that but it fundamentally feels like a misdirection. It’s easily hand waved away eg “it uses less than a golf course” and yet it’s still a constant media talking point.
eesmith 2 hours ago|||
Your use of "into the environment" is too broad.

If you pump water out of one watershed into another, perhaps via evaporation and wind transport, then you better expect the downstream users, deprived of their water, to complain.

For example, the upstream users of water from the Colorado use so much that Colorado River Delta is nearly always dry. Or read about the California water wars.

Further, increased competition for surface water raises prices, which encourages additional aquifer extraction.

nradov 1 hour ago||
The problem in California is that competition for water doesn't raise prices. Much of our water supply is allocated based on property rights rather than as a commodity so prices for some users remain artificially lower than the market price. This causes waste and shortages. Eventually we'll have to reform the system but there's no political will to do so.
0xbadcafebee 2 hours ago||
The water for the datacenter comes from the same place residents, farmers, etc get their water. If there is already not a lot of water, the datacenter can cause running out of water. Sending used water downstream doesn't magically reappear upstream.
rileymat2 1 hour ago||
In some cases there is no stream involved at all, which is more problematic, but is pumped from groundwater.
userbinator 1 hour ago||
This is also likely insignificant compared to how much water is constantly evaporated by a large lake.
pavel_lishin 2 hours ago||
> For context, 13 million gallons is enough to fill around 20 Olympic-size swimming pools, and is less than half of what the City of Lincoln reports using on Sept. 29.

Over the course of a year, that doesn't sound terrible.

persedes 2 hours ago||
That's wishful thinking, I know, but would love a breakdown of those metrics into what actually goes into AI inference, training versus just TikTok / YouTube streaming, or just a Google search...To have some perspective. My hypothesis that prolonged video streaming might contribute similarly to AI usage? (But CDN etc might make that tricky to calculate...)
tptacek 2 hours ago||
It's not terrible at all. It's dwarfed by common municipal demands, let alone industry or agriculture. It's an amount of water that's basically not worth talking about.
jimjimjim 1 hour ago||
From a redaction point of view: I can't believe this is still happening. Surely by now all government and local government offices have a data/records person and policies about information handling. I guess it's not really sensitive info like the name of a government informant. Maybe they intentionally leaked it with a 'whoops, we tried' excuse.

If it really matters, block it out, print it, scan it, then send that.

If it really really really matters, block it out with random extra amounts of width, print it, scan it, edit the page images in paint to move the text to the right of a redaction forward or back a bit so people can't guess the words based on width.

i_love_retros 1 hour ago||
Seems like a lot of water to me. And what does society get back from google in return?
vmg12 1 hour ago|
Yeah, what have the Romans ever done for us?
api 2 hours ago||
It… doesn’t look that bad. Electricity use is sizable. Water which usually gets all this screaming is, well, look up how much a golf course or a large hotel uses.
rileymat2 1 hour ago||
It varies pretty greatly, but our golf course uses untreated water from a relatively dirty river that is not used for drinking. It looks like Google is using ground water from the aquifer. These are significantly different beasts.
mitxela 2 hours ago||
Concern about water use is the distraction they caused in the media so we'd too busy thinking about fake issues to think about the real issues.
YetAnotherNick 2 hours ago|||
Not a conspiracy theorist, but wait that really sounds effective. Just few months back I was wondering why were big datacenter companies not trying to sway the public that the water usage is low per query or whatever metric.

There will be protests and cases related to water usage of AI, but none of them would hold any ground. And winning the water case would just make the argument in their favour.

dylan604 2 hours ago|||
Which begs the question of who was the source of the water/electricity FUD?
DANmode 2 hours ago||
You don’t have to create unrest, sometimes you just have to let it go unchecked in the right spots.
DANmode 2 hours ago|||
Flood the zone.

> Just few months back

Just a few months more, and the public was still often making Epstein references.

0xbadcafebee 2 hours ago|||
Excess water use is actively harming people right now.
drnick1 2 hours ago||
So what? Water used for cooling doesn't disappear.
ordersofmag 1 hour ago||
Historically large data centers used evaporative cooling. So the water disappeared in sense that it's no longer available in a useful form in it's original locations. That's changing with growing use of closed-loop systems.
minimaxir 1 hour ago|||
A lot of people think it does, surprisingly. People memed too hard about "querying ChatGPT drains lakes" and anyone who contested it was deemed a booster, so it stuck.
jryan49 1 hour ago||
I thought some cooling setups aren't closed loop?
minimaxir 1 hour ago||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cycle
sensanaty 1 hour ago||
It doesn't mean the water goes back into the same sources it was pulled from, though
alcomatt 1 hour ago||
no it doesn't but it doesn't go back to where it was taken from either. So it does affect local aquifers.
webbrainiac 2 hours ago||
[flagged]
dylan604 2 hours ago|
This document was created after the Epstein redaction debacle and yet they still leaked redacted data. People will never learn. <facepalm>