Posted by surprisetalk 1 day ago
It's very hard to say much about an absolute number. You need to compare against some alternative or control, and because of CPU load, throttling, GC, and a thousand other variables, you really should be comparing against that control _in the same run_, and importantly round robin across multiple runs to spread out the noise fairly across each implementation.
Then once you have a bunch of measurements you have a distribution and shouldn't just take a mean to compare, but should calculate something like the 95% confidence interval. If you see that those confidence intervals overlap, the you might not really know which is faster. If they don't overlap, then you probably do know which is faster.
If you have a good benchmark, then running it more times can narrow the confidence intervals and let you tease out very small improvements at the cost of longer runs. If confidence intervals don't narrow, then you hit the limits of signal-to-noise.
This is the only way I've been able to get reliable, actionable benchmarks outside of a very, very controlled hardware lab. It's what Google's Tachometer benchmark runner does, and I wish more runners did this: https://github.com/google/tachometer
https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13423-015-0947-8
https://web.archive.org/web/20250418135701/https://jkkweb.si...
it's tempting, but otherwise you're just attesting the limits of the current environment
> Anything faster than, say, 10ms risks being skewed by fixed costs (e.g, interpreter startup).
Sounds like the author’s experience is strictly in Python. For example with Java you have to make sure the JIT has sufficient optimized your program.
Additionally there’s plenty of situations where it can take a really long time to generate a representative dataset worth benchmarking and it can take time to evaluate the performance (eg databases). Short and quick microbenchmarks can be useful as building points, but at some point you need to evaluate steady state performance of the full thing. Other domains this comes up with is game rendering performance where a 300ms sample tells you nothing about whether you have frame drops after minute 25 or have a memory leak.
However in general - I agree with OP. Most of the time I care about milliseconds.
> Sounds like the author’s experience is strictly in Python. Er [1], no [2].
A lot of my meditations on optimization date back to a profiler telling me that a redundant function call was responsible for 5% of the run time of a task. After removing it, run time decreased by 20%. Then I had to think about all the ways in which profilers can lie. It’s still a black art after all this time.
The tools tell you whether it might be worthwhile to look at a problem, but keeping your work is a completely different matter entirely. Unfortunately some people get Sunk Cost Fallacy, or worry about losing face, so once committed to a course will see it merged into the codebase whether it does anything or not. And they will push harder if they win the lottery and one test run says theirs is much faster. Nevermind that the next ten runs show the opposite.
I've never seen "in vivid" used this way. Are you thinking of "in vivo" which is from Latin meaning "in life" or "in living" distinguished against Latin "in vitro" meaning "in glass" referring to the glass petri dishes or beakers used to do science experiments in a laboratory?
There also needs to be care taken in how these measurements are aggregated. Averages will almost always tell you nothing. High percentiles (95%, 99%, 99.9%) under load may show you something completely different than the average or even median case.
I didn’t intend to specialize in performance early in my career but it happened anyway. I tuned boring homework assignments to make them more interesting for myself. But I moved far away for my first gig out of school and when I showed up the UI painted so slow it looked like one of those videos of an artist drawing something by hand but sped up. I hid my panic at having my name associated with this stinking pile and as soon as I’d done a couple of challenging bug fixes to prove I wasn’t an idiot I got to work.
My first dozen changes needed no benchmarks, In part because I had the slowest machine in the office. I could literally count seconds in my head and tell that I’d taken >1/4 of a second off of an operation because I made it a syllable or two farther in the old version. Later on I used the stopwatch function on a handheld device, to catch 100ms differences. I was there for nearly two months before I needed to put console output of (end - start) into the code for the first time.
By the time I started running out of stuff I knew how to fix, the corpus of data had started showing a serious scalability problem in the data filtering operations, so we were back into classical architectural misdeeds. We had a 2n logn² intersection test that did two scans on different criteria and compared the results using a quadratic time comparison. This code was copy pasta’d in dozens and dozens of places around the project, with slight variations in variable names and parameter marshaling. I replaced all the copies with one function they did filter(filter(x)) over a long holiday weekend since I had nobody local. -500 lines of code and much much lower slope of call time on multi year data sets.
I tried to fix it by switching hyperthreading off, playing with the scaling governor, boost, setting a CPU frequency to no avail. The jitter was too much and the results were not reproducible, so I just gave up.
Of course your mileage may vary; this was on an AMD Zen 3 CPU.
You can use the desired confidence to inform the warm-up, number of trials, benchmark duration, and so on.
If you end up with a multimodal distribution it can be worth tracking percentiles.
The results were indeed multimodal.
All I wanted was to have a reproducible benchmark to see how the code changes affected performance over time.
a) language was not garbage collected (C++)
b) we avoided heap lock contentions in critical paths by pre-allocating object pools at startup
c) I/O operations were offloaded to separate threads, connected by mutex locked linked lists
d) processing thread was bound to its own CPU core
That's about as deterministic as we could get.
Additionally I avoided core 0, because it was the noisiest and did some cgroups core pinning for the test workload.
There were zero page faults during the test runs and the CPU core was uncontested by other threads.
I think in 2008 CPUs were not so crazy about power and heat management.
His theory was you want to run a benchmark several times, for short periods of time, and take the fastest run as the benchmark.
I ended up doing a lot of benchmarking for the Python Need For Speed Sprint, and that advice seemed to work out well for us there.
There are other benchmarking points in that document about measurement footguns that can arise from targeting a specific duration like the 200..400ms of TFA with an easy but careless problem scale-up (like the Ben Hoyt example of footnote 4).
With that tool, in user space with just CPU freq pinning, I routinely see CPU bound times that are stable to single digit microseconds month to month on the same machine and see 0.01% to 0.2% effects on 10ms scale activity (yes, 1..20 bps) and the reported uncertainty usually captures the variation all right, but the distribution is not really Gaussian/Normal and instead has more shape parameters and/or you would want a 95% CI or some such as mentioned elsethread here.
So if I'm comparing against (say) C++, Swift, ObjC, on a given (arm64 or x86_64) architecture, I want to see that sort of timescale, a bit less is fine, a bit more is fine.
Of course, when you (today [grin]) get auto-vectorisation of 2D matrix multiplies, and you have an SME/SME2 target on arm64 that most compilers don't pick up so you're 150x faster than clang/g++, you might have to run it a bit longer so you can get reasonable comparison numbers :)
[1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Performance...
- Does several warm-up runs so the JIT-optimized code is benchmarked instead of the interpreted code/compilation.
- Create multiple forks of the JVM to eliminate JVM run variance.
- Provide utilities like `Blackhole` to prevent dead code elimination and `State` to do setup and prevent constant folding.